new forum member restoring 1985 spree

[oldrock]

I like the idea of a scooter that gets around 100mpg for running errands around the neighborhood so I saw one for sale super cheap and picked up a 1985 spree yesterday. I figured I should find a good forum to learn more about it. Looks like this forum will be a great so thought I'd join up. My spree is black and in fairly good shape considering. All plastic is there and in pretty good shape other than a few broken tabs. Other than one burned out turn signal bulb, everything works on the scooter and the previous owner just put a new battery in it which is a nice plus.

The bad part is he could not get the thing to run other than for a few seconds when he sprayed starting fluid in the carb. I guess that is why he gave up and sold it to me so cheap. Since I have messed around with hotrods since I was young, I do have a basic understanding of motors albeit much bigger ones and figured it would be a fun project for me.

OK so yesterday when I brought it home, the first things I did were to drain out the old gas and injector oil. Gas looked ok with no major rust in the tank. Pulled the spark plug and it was really caked up black which on my hotrods would suggest too rich. However, when I looked at the injector oil, it looked like the previous owner might have put regular motor oil in there so figured I should get a new plug and stick it in there. Since it was sunday and the motorcycle shops were all closed, I just wire brushed the old plug off and sprayed it down with carb cleaner and put it back in. Primed it with a little shot of gas and tried the bike. Did start up but only ran a few seconds and died. Pulled teh carb and stripped it down and gave everything a good spray with carb cleaner. Blew it out with compressed air and put all back together. Primed it again and viola! Scoot actually ran! Well sorta ran I should say. It will idle ok (kina lopes at idle). The throttle response is laggy and when I try to ride the scoot, it will go about 50 feet and bog down. If I stop and let it idle for a bit, I can go another 50 feet and then it bogs again.

I figured first thing I should do is get a good plug in there so picking one of those up today and will see what that does. If anyone has any other suggestions, let me know. I know old mustangs pretty well but am totally new to these scooters.

[gfisher99]

Sounds like the carb is still dirty. They are a pain to clean correctly (completely). There are a lot of tiny orifices that you can hardly see with the naked eye. Your best bet is to soak it for a few days, and that doesnt always get it.

Another big thing is to make sure you have ALL of the the pieces of the airbox and have the correct air filter. If you dont have the OEM filter, you can get one at your local Honda dealer. They usually have to order it, and it takes about a week to come in. I think mine was like $6.00 or so. Don't get them off eBay, people charge sometimes upwards of $20 for them.

If you have a compression tester handy, that's a good test. They are like $16 at Harbor Freight - a good tool to have. You should have a minimum of 114psi, according to the service manual.

Download the service manual from the technical documents section. You will find lots of information and troubleshooting tips in there.

People here can diagnose almost any problem you may run in to. Juts make sure you give a good description.

[oldrock]

thanks goped, I did download that manual and have to say how cool is that to have that available! Thanks to whomever did that one. I haven't read it all yet but will be going thru it this week.

Re airbox, I think it is all there. It had the black plastic molded box with the 3 plastic clips and the single screw in the middle of teh lid. All it had in it was a gray foam element but it was fitted and didn't break apart when I rubbed it in my fingers so I just cleaned it with dish soap and reoiled it with a very light coating of oil.

Re carb, I didn't take the time to soak it in berrymans yet since I was trying to see if I could get it up and running yesterday. I am picking up a new plug at lunch today and if that doesn't improve things, I will pull the carb and soak it overnight and see if that helps. The fact that the scoot will start up and idle is at least a good sign though.

Re compression, I have a compression tester so will check that out this afternoon while I am changing the plug and report back. Looking forward to getting it running so I can use it to make all those trips to the grocery store, hardware store, etc.

[RZRob]

Sounds like you have the same problem I did.

THE CURE: Pull the bowl off the carb and in the bowl you'll barely see a pick-up hole that feeds the ByStarter (choke circuit). This was clogged on both of min. Clean that and she runs fantastic. I eventually ended up cleaning the tank and reselaing it for trouble free operation.

It was the experts on this forum that steered me right to the problem - after I'd already cleaned the carb many times.

RZ Rob

[Bear45-70]

Sounds like you have the same problem I did.

THE CURE: Pull the bowl off the carb and in the bowl you'll barely see a pick-up hole that feeds the ByStarter (choke circuit). This was clogged on both of min. Clean that and she runs fantastic. I eventually ended up cleaning the tank and reselaing it for trouble free operation.

It was the experts on this forum that steered me right to the problem - after I'd already cleaned the carb many times.

RZ Rob

Actually his bystarter is working fine. The scooter starts and idles he said.

The lope at idle generally means to rich an idle mixture. try setting the air screw to base setting and adjust from there.

[PimpinSpree]

heres what i do on all of mine when i get a new one and i'm trying to get them to run

1. check compression
2. drain gas and check for rust in tank, if rusty clean it out
3. replace the fuel line with new, clear, hose with a clear filter, in line, in the middle of the hose (i also remove the filter in the tank) i like being able to see the fuel flow, and to know if there is debris coming out the tank
4. thoroughly clean carb and replace all gaskets and o-rings
5. replace air filter
6. replace spark plug
7. drain and replace oil
fill with fuel and see how it runs

it'll take the scooter from being temperamental to actually running good and being reliable

[RZRob]

Actually his bystarter is working fine. The scooter starts and idles he said.

The lope at idle generally means to rich an idle mixture. try setting the air screw to base setting and adjust from there.

Yes you might be right, except mine would run OK too after I got into the operating temp range that didn't require the rich mixture provided by the ByStarter circuit. In fact this gave me a false sense that I'd cured it until the next morning when she was back to her old tricks.

Once I discovered the orifice in the bowl (thanks MouseWheels) then she started and idled cold and then I dialed in the mixture to where she runs like a champ.

You might be right that it's not this, but since it was overlooked on both of mine, I wanted to make sure he didn't have the same issue.

RZ Rob

[oldrock]

thanks for the points guys. I got out there this afternoon and worked on it some more. Went to the moto shop and got a couple different NGK plugs. I got the stock one with the 6 in it and the one with a 7 in it (forgot the full number at moment). I put in the 7 one to see what it would do. I also did a compression test when I was at it. Compression read 118 to 120 each time I tested it so sounds like compression is ok. I also pulled the carb and actually soaked that in my berrymans carb cleaner bucket for about an hour and blew it out with compressed air set at about 50psi. This time I used a rubber tube on the compressor tip to make sure I hit each hole and tube.

I also checked the tank valve to see if it flowed properly at a vacuum. I used a mity vac with a gauge and it started flowing at 2psi and flowed very strong by 3 or 4psi so I assume that is good. After assembling everything wtih teh new plug in, I fired it up and the idle sounded alot better today. Not nearly as lopey as yesterday. My first run up the block was really encouraging. The bike got right up to 25mpg at abbout 2/3 throttle. At full throttle it still cut out a bit but was running good up and down teh block. I thought I would try the other plug I bought and this time it didn't run as good. Only got up to about 15mph at around 1/3throttle and then would cut out. Put the 7 plug back in and same thing happened. BTW, I did check the plug after the good run of about 2 blocks total and the plug already had a light black wet coating on the ceramic part although the electrode looked tan colored and dry.

So I am encouraged that the scoot can run nice but got to figure out why that was just a one shot deal today. Any suggestions? Oh and since pics always make forums more fun, thought I would post a few of mine. Keep in mind it hasn't really been cleaned up much yet.






seat is kinda torn but I'll deal with that after I get it running

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Thanks for the pics. Is it possible your fuel system is depositing some sludge into your float needle? The #6 plug is specified for a stock setup ridden moderately. #7 may be too cold, but unlikely that it's fouling out so quickly. The carb may still be a limiting factor - you must get the little pilot circuit passage clear. It's cast into the carb body aligned with the short brass tube beside the main jet tower.

[oldrock]

re carb cleaning, I did run a small wire down that smaller brass tube next to the main tube with the jet. It did have some crud in it but I couldn't get the wire to pass all the way thru that tube. It seemed to bottom out in the tube. Is a wire suppost to pass all the way thru that tube and curve out the side? If so, maybe that is a problem. Also what about the emulsion tube they mention in the pictorial carb guide? I didn't take that one out. I just took the jet out to clean it and the tube itself was open. I didn't try to drive that inner tube out so is that something I need to do? If so, how do I go about doing that? Seems you would have to have a steel rod of the right size to drive it out. I did try pressing on the tube with the flat end of a drill bit and it didn't budge. I didn't want to go at it with a hammer for fear of damaging it.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

The emulsion tube isn't press-fit in the jet tower, but it can be resin-glued. It needs to come out. Wooden or plastic dowel is the instrument of choice, and steady prolonged light pressure. If not, maybe another overnight soak?

The Pilot circuit would admit only a bristle from a steel brush, a wire is too thick.

[RZRob]

Take the main jet out and then you can knock the emulsion tube out by going down the top of the carburetor (unscrewing the cap) with the backside of a small screwdriver. Cleaning that made a big difference, but convince me you tended to the small hole on the bowl.

I couldn't pass wire through the pilot hole (back out the air mixture screw), but I blew air up the brass pipe and carb spray and could see/feel it coming through loud and clear so I knew I got that, BUT THE ORIFICE ON THE BOWL WAS THE CULPRIT for both of my bikes.

RZ Rob

[oldrock]

ok so I have two things to do still. I need to get that tube out. If I am hearing this right what I need to do is unscrew the jet and then tap the tube where it protrudes at the bottom of teh carb to drive it up past where the jet was threaded in. I will run get a wooden dowel if I can't find something that would work. Maybe the plastic handle of a screwdriver would be the ticket and I could just lightly tap on the blade part so the plastic is pushing the tube where it sticks out past the base of teh carb?

Re the hole in the carb bowl, I honestly didn't spot that one. I will sure look for it when I pull the carb (3rd time haha). How do I go about clearing the small hole. Wire from a bread tie work or do I need something stiffer?

Just to give an update, we made several passes up adn down the block with it hoping it might clean up with some use. Never did allow us to give more than about 1/3 throttle without bogging. Even at 1/3 throttle though, it will do 15mph on a flat road and gets up to 20+ on a gradual slope at the end of our block. The bad part is going up that gradual slope the scoot slows down to about 5mph. So I still need to sort out the carb issue to let me get full throttle but otherwise the scooter is working good. Brakes are fine ad idle is no problem now. I have it set where the back wheel just barely turns with wheel up. I tried slowing it down where wheel doesn't free turn at all but it didn't like such a low idle. I did check the settings and I have air mixture set at 1 3/4 turns and idle adjustment at a little over 2 turns.

[martynkim]

Matchstick is my tool of choice removing the emulsion tube. as for the hole in the bottom of the bowl try a wire off a wire brush very fine and stiff.

[oldrock]

so a matchstick drove it out? I must be doing it wrong then because it sure seemed stuck in there. Just to make sure I am not being an idiot... I know the jet screws out of that tube but the sleeve everyone is talking about is just a brass insert that pushes out right? I did tap on it when I soaked the carb this afternoon and it didn't want to budge with light tapping. I guess i will try using the plastic handle on a screwdriver and see if I can punch it thru there. For cleaning that little hole in the carb bowl, I will see if I can pull a wire bristle from my wire brush I use on a drill. Not very long (maybe an inch or two) but is pretty stiff so should work better than the breadtie. Do I need to keep working on that smaller brass tube in teh carb while I am at it to see if I can get a wire pushed thru that or do you think it is ok? Also a side note, both the o ring and the shaped ring on the carbs were still there and looked ok although they did kinda swell a bit from the first short soak. Do you think I should pick up a new set? I did check after re-installing and nothing was leaking. Oh one more question: I noticed that back choke thing going into the carb only had one o-ring although it had two slots. Do I need to put a second one in there? Again it isn't dripping or anything but I just don't want to be overlooking something simple here since I have never worked on such a tiny little carb.