New to NQ50s

[az_slynch]

Hi! I recently purchased an '85 Spree in a fit of nostalga. I owned an '85 Aero 50 (black) years ago and figured I'd give its smaller sibling a try. I've also owned an '81 Express SR (resurrection, recently sold) and an '87 Elite 80 (still own, enjoy, over 11K on the odometer, etc).

My Spree appears to be less than healthy. So far, I've uncovered the following issues:

- Bad CDI unit. No spark until I swapped in the one from my CH80.
- Only 62lbs compression. Second ring is jammed firmly into the piston groove.
- Bent crank. I doubt that the flywheel/magneto is supposed to wobble when the crank is rotated.
- Crap tires. Rear tire incorrectly sized and rubbing on the fender.
- Front brake sticking.

The game plan:

- Replace the CDI. Stock unit preferred.
- Install Tazland's 44mm big-bore kit.
- Replace crank. Is there a difference between the '84-'85 and '86-'87 cranks?
- New Kenda K329s in 2.50-10 ordered and en-route.
- Dismantle front brake assembly and clean/re-lube actuating cam.

I've read a bit already and I'm jazzed by all the wealth of info on this forum. Thanks for being here for us newbies!

[bradthreee]

The game plan:

- Replace the CDI. Stock unit preferred.
- Install Tazland's 44mm big-bore kit.
- Replace crank. Is there a difference between the '84-'85 and '86-'87 cranks?
- New Kenda K329s in 2.50-10 ordered and en-route.
- Dismantle front brake assembly and clean/re-lube actuating cam.

I've read a bit already and I'm jazzed by all the wealth of info on this forum. Thanks for being here for us newbies!

Welcome to the forum

Looks like you have already done an extensive amount of research before diggin in to the scooter and thats a good start!

As for the CDI, I have found that the earlier year Sprees seem to have a bigger CDI than the later years. I'm not sure if they interchange, but to be on the safe side I would stick to your specific year. Unless its an 86-87 it seems that many other Hondas share the same CDI.

Tazlands kit seems to be a good choice, but be prepared to have to tinker with the carb and airbox as it isnt a true bolt on kit. Quality used is always a good choice

As for the cranks, I've read that they are year specific. An easy option would be to buy a bare motor with crank already in it to take out the guess work.

I would have waited to order the tires as a slightly larger 2.75-10 tire would have helped your top speed with the anticipated big bore kit. Either way you'll be fine as he also came out with a taller gear ratio recently for the Spree.

Good luck with your project and any questions dont hesitate to ask

Also take a look @ my sig if you need anything as I have it all

[az_slynch]

Welcome to the forum

Thanks for the welcome. Going by your sig, I have a feeling we might be doing some business.

As for the CDI, I have found that the earlier year Sprees seem to have a bigger CDI than the later years. I'm not sure if they interchange, but to be on the safe side I would stick to your specific year. Unless its an 86-87 it seems that many other Hondas share the same CDI.

Good info. I found that my '87 NH80's CDI was compatable. I believe the interchangability in Hondas is defined by the connector type, but I could be incorrect on that. One idea that I've considered in getting one of those CDI units that retard timing at a set RPM and using one of those "stepped" Woodruff keys to artifically advance timing at the bottom end. The idea is to run the timing slightly advanced until the magic RPM and then electronically retard it. I'm sure it'll work fine on the CH80, but I'm uncertain if the two-stroke will tolerate that.

Tazlands kit seems to be a good choice, but be prepared to have to tinker with the carb and airbox as it isnt a true bolt on kit. Quality used is always a good choice

Not too worried there. The airbox on my '81 NX50M (Express SR) was disintegrated. I brewed up a solution by using the cone-style crankcase breather from Autozone (think I saw that trick here too) and downjetted from a #78 to a #75 to make the ratios right. I still have extra jetting, but I'll have to see if the jets from an AF04E will work in the Spree's carb.

As for the cranks, I've read that they are year specific. An easy option would be to buy a bare motor with crank already in it to take out the guess work.

Shall we talk quality used, then?

I would have waited to order the tires as a slightly larger 2.75-10 tire would have helped your top speed with the anticipated big bore kit. Either way you'll be fine as he also came out with a taller gear ratio recently for the Spree.

Funny bit is, the bike had a 2.75-10 on the rear and it was rubbing vigorously against the fender/airbox. I tried adjusting things around some and stopped short of reshaping things with a heat gun. I'll probably revisit this if I wind up working out an alternative filtering solution for the big bore.

[bradthreee]

I think you are correct on the CDI connector interchangability. I've never tried others but am assuming that they are because I have one of those "race CDI's" on my Spree that was said to be for a Dio. I've tried the SE50 CDI as well and it was a perfect match to my 87 Spree.

PM me with whatever you need either it be advice or parts.

Since you are new, watch out for that old geezer bear

O and forgot to mention that the airbox would need to be removed to run the bigger tire, but the pod filter would take care of that

[az_slynch]

Thanks for the warning.

I hope "new to forum" isn't correlated directly with "instant moh-run". The Spree may be new to me, but I first got my mitts dirty on a '64 Vespa 150 (VBB2) over twenty years ago. I'd like think I've learned a thing or two since then...

[z50r-ghost]

Welcome to the forum dude...

Yep, B3 has the used - parts on lockdown. -i'll be the first one to give him a

Here's a few hints on your sticking / frozen up brake cam, polish it up with a steel wire-wheel on a bench grinder or a Dremel. -i have seen some that have so much corrosion on them a simple "cleaning" wont do much good. Avoid sandpaper... and if you have to tap it out, spray it w' WD40 first and be sure to not damage those splines. A brass hammer from Harbor Freight always comes in handy. Once it's shiny grease it up and you will be good to go.

There's a TON of good people here; all who will be more than willing to answer any questions ya got.

later, jon

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

I'll second Jon/ZR50's vouching for Brad The Cubed. Stand-up kind of guy is he.

Bad CDI unit. No spark until I swapped in the one from my CH80.
- Only 62lbs compression. Second ring is jammed firmly into the piston groove.
- Bent crank. I doubt that the flywheel/magneto is supposed to wobble when the crank is rotated.
- Crap tires. Rear tire incorrectly sized and rubbing on the fender.
- Front brake sticking.

There is the possibility that that's only an incorrectly-installed flywheel. There's a woodruff key in there that costs 2 bucks. If you've got pullers, you may be able to fix your "crank" problem without splitting the cases.

If it turns out to be the crank, Spree blocks are fairly cheap from my observations.

[z50r-ghost]

yes sir.... good hypothesis Wheelman...

-those woodruff keys can get worn or chipped if installed incorrectly, especially if the person 'wrenching on it does not get the proper torque on the flywheel nut.

-Sprees with alot of miles tend to need crank seals a little sooner than the other Honda scooters. (usually the seal on the transmission side) Be sure to put a new set of crank seals in just as "maintenence" for your build. -A leaky / brittle crank seal will cause headaches later. -as well, you do not have to split the cases to install new seals. A careful hand and a dental style pick will pull an old seal out easily.

later, j

[az_slynch]

Welcome to the forum dude...

Thank you for the welcome.

I'll be sure to thoroughly clean the brake cams once I get into the wheels. I might even replace the cables if they're sticking at all. Flakey brakes are not high on my favorites list.

Sprees with alot of miles tend to need crank seals a little sooner than the other Honda scooters. (usually the seal on the transmission side) Be sure to put a new set of crank seals in just as "maintenence" for your build. -A leaky / brittle crank seal will cause headaches later. -as well, you do not have to split the cases to install new seals. A careful hand and a dental style pick will pull an old seal out easily.

I just went through that on my '81 P200E. She has 10,500 on the original engine and the crankcase seals just went crunchy. The Spree only has 5K on it, but they look like they were hard miles to me. I'll hit the Honda dealer this week for seals and gaskets.

[az_slynch]

Greetings:
There is the possibility that that's only an incorrectly-installed flywheel. There's a woodruff key in there that costs 2 bucks. If you've got pullers, you may be able to fix your "crank" problem without splitting the cases.

Hi! You may have hit the nail on the head there. I jury-rigged a poor man's dial indicator last night using some copper wire twisted into an indicator needle and fixed it to the block using one of the muffler bolts. I checked the spacing between the needle and the flywheel with a feeler gauge at intervals to see how "off" it was. I also checked against the visible end of the crank, which appeared to track true. I'll pull the flywheel tonight and see what the straight dope is.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

The installation tools in the Service Manual really make this stuff a LOT easier. ChevyGuyJay had a video of his quick-'n-dirty flywheel removal method in Technical Help at one time - maybe February? - dedicated to Wheelman. Installation is trickier without the assembly doo-hickey that threads onto the right end of the crank. Snug it is. Like Yoda I speak. It's very hard to get it seated all the way without risk to the crank. I suspect the Previous Owner surmised that.

Twice now I've brought Pizza/Egg McCoronaries to my Dealer's Service Department. For $20 I can borrow anything I want overnight. Honda-san knows my name. Besides being nice guys and fun to talk to, it was a wise investment.

[Storm]

I cant back Wheelman up enough on the right tool for the job. I've butchered some horrendously expensive bits of motorcycle trying the old "ah, it'll be all right using this oversized screwdriver and prying it off". Find a mate at a dealership, and you're away and laughing.
I've got to pull my spree engine apart and replace the left hand side as I found out the hard way that standard spree shocks do NOT save your engine from snapping when you thrash it off road(maybe another case of right tool for the job )

Best of luck getting it all running sweet

[az_slynch]

Well, I pulled the flywheel last night. I happened to have the proper puller. Amusingly, the puller that I'd bought for removing Bosch moped flywheels (that didn't fit the moped, of course) fit properly for the Spree, so 1up on the tools! And that sums up the good news.

Per Monica Lewinsky's description, the crank is bent.

Between the build-up in the muffler, exhaust port and piston, there's enough coke accumulated to make Columbian drug lords envious. The build-up inside the piston alone fills the void between the crown and the piston pin. The exhaust port was over 35% sealed with carbon build-up. This is one of the nastiest motors I've opened in a while; the words "wrong oil" come to mind.

The crowning glory is the crack in the flywheel half of the crankcase. It's only a hairline fracture, but it runs from the crank seal seat down toward the bottom of the case.

I guess the question at this point is, do I acquire another NQ/05 bottom end or go for a variated upgrade? If I go with the former option, I assume '86 is the year to have based on factory gear ratios (a kicker would be nice too)?

Brad^3, you have PM.

Storm, thank you for the advice and well-wishes.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Glad to know you've solved the mystery, even if it's bad news. BeeThreee can fix you up I bet. SE/05 is another good option, easier to score as the Forum Collective keeps close tabs on all the 16s that pop up. You have to be quick.

BTW:

Per Monica Lewinsky's description, the crank is bent.

Good one!

[bradthreee]

pm replied