2-smoke emissions vs. auto emissions

[wiguy05]

* are you rambling about?

I'm sorry. I thought intelligent people would catch the gist of the thread. It's about "pollution" and "global warming". Please read and you won't need alliterated explicities.

Actually it was a question comparing 2-stroke scooter emissions directly to 4-stroke vehicular emissions. You just took it upon yourself to make rediculous ramblings about political influence and your personal opinion of our governments view on emissions standards

I can has good read skills from my publik edumacation.

[elitedio]

On factor overlooked is the energy it went into making the vehicle. There are reports that a Hummer takes less energy to build and drive 100,000 miles than a Prius.

I would say that on a per mile basis there are more emissions from a 20 year old 2 stroke scooter but if you looked at the total energy it takes to build and drive then the numbers may change significantly. Socialcrats tend to ignore the cost to build and drive.

[Lunytune]

On factor overlooked is the energy it went into making the vehicle. There are reports that a Hummer takes less energy to build and drive 100,000 miles than a Prius.

I would say that on a per mile basis there are more emissions from a 20 year old 2 stroke scooter but if you looked at the total energy it takes to build and drive then the numbers may change significantly. Socialcrats tend to ignore the cost to build and drive.

Something else they are not telling you on these "green" cars is that though they may use less gasoline, they do use electricity... which must be generated in a powerplant... Since there is a moratorium on nuclear powerplants, and environmentalists say hydroplants are detrimental to fish life, that leaves... hydrocarbon... either oil, gas or coal... and those all produce some level of emissions. Wind power is good but not enough. Solar energy is a flop... or at least too expensive to be considered viable.

Socialcrats... I like that.

[eliteguy50]

Solar energy is a flop... or at least too expensive to be considered viable.

when you factor in the initial and continuing cost of wind turbines, they come out to be a wash in some markets...

[Lunytune]

Solar energy is a flop... or at least too expensive to be considered viable.

when you factor in the initial and continuing cost of wind turbines, they come out to be a wash in some markets...

Yeah, but beneficial to Boone if he can get the government subsidies and Obama's energy package.

[Bear45-70]

Am I wrong to say that a gallon of gas creates the same amount of emissions if it is burned, evaporated, or whatever?

Gasoline burns very very very dirty unconfined and uncontrolled.

http://www.southernskies.net/page_info/ ... ngine.html

The two stroke is much more efficient than we give it credit for. The fuel IS confined and IS controlled more than you think. The sonic compression wave of a properly tuned exhaust resolves the majority of the fuel that comes through due to the overlap of intake and exhaust. What is so obnoxious to us is the fumes from the oil, not the gasoline, and that has been reduced considerably from the 1 in 16 common 50 years ago to 1 in 50 now. We would produce far less emissions if we would trust our oil and injection system instead of pouring extra oil in the tank.

Europe is possibly the most politically correct continent when it comes to Global Warming and air quality control, yet it is there where the majority of 2 strokes are. Scooters are everywhere and nobody seems to complain. I think our mindset is politically created, not realistic.

Yamaha has pretty much thumbed their nose at the politically correct thinkers and continues to build 2 strokers which they built their fame on. Honda, on the other hand, has yielded to the pressure in the move to 4 strokers. And that's why we Spree/Elite lovers do what we do. So don't try to make me feel guilty with all this politally correct jargon.

The general public doesn't like the oil smoke or any other visible emissions, but the EPA worries more about the unseen emissions and that's what they legislate more than the 2 stroke oil smoke. The 2 stroke manufacturers have know for years that the 2 stroke engines will live on 100 to 1 or even less oil mixtures, especially in the cool running water cooled 2 strokes, but the requirement to winterize every time the engine sits for 2 weeks of more has hindered that direction. The EPA * are the one who got rid of the 2 stroke here in the USA, mostly to be PC and to give their department more power. *, they made the old cheap flat head 4 strokes go away for no other reason than a way to spread their power base.

[Lunytune]

I can has good read skills from my publik edumacation.

Yeah, I figured that one out.

[808BMW]

I can has good read skills from my publik edumacation.

My cat lol'd.



I love my elite, but shame on honda for being the pansies that they are. I applaud Yamaha for sticking with their 2 stroke glory (I may buy a jog one day). The same goes for the europeans, although I don't see many euro scoots being sold around here.

Who knows, maybe KTM will put out a 50cc scooter! Although if I'm wishing for euro 2 stroke goodness, I want an Aprilia RS250.

[Lunytune]

I love my elite, but shame on honda for being the pansies that they are. I applaud Yamaha for sticking with their 2 stroke glory (I may buy a jog one day). The same goes for the europeans, although I don't see many euro scoots being sold around here.

I'm with you all the way on that. When you do find a Euro scoot, price is out of range, and parts not as easy to find. I've cut my teeth on the Elite and like you I like it. But I am fearfully close to the edge of sliding over to the Yammerhammers, now that I understand 2 strokes better.

[eliteguy50]

Who knows, maybe KTM will put out a 50cc scooter! Although if I'm wishing for euro 2 stroke goodness, I want an Aprilia RS250.

x2

But I am fearfully close to the edge of sliding over to the Yammerhammers,

I already have, and the yamahopper is way easier than an elite for camping trips but the Zuma (bugeye) is heavier than my aero 125 but those wider tires do help sometimes.

as far as the auto emissions, does anyone have any stats for the old opposed four Porche engine (aka bug engine)? that way we can compare apples to apples (air cooled 2 stroke to air cooled four stroke automobile) for fun.

[808BMW]

Jog motors are able to go faster than elites, but serious modding costs more than the same parts on a honda (as far as I've been told). I've never really wanted one, but as every year passes, elites get harder and harder to find.
Some of you guys find running 94+ elites for 200-$500, out here you better have $1000+ for a non-stolen moped. Having the manufacturer keeps parts available, and gives confidence to the aftermarket suppliers to actually produce the parts. A lot of the best things for us are no longer made, which is fitting because neither is the bike.
Everyone always asks "Why waste all that money on an 87 elite, you could just go buy a brand new moped for that". I usually reply with "Go find me a brand new elite 50 with 0 miles and I'll pay you $5000 cash." All the money in the world won't make a difference when all the bikes are gone.

I love my YZ250, and I'd hate for Yamaha to kill it's 2 strokes in any aspect of their lineup. Same reason why KTM would be my choice for a scooter, they are established in the American market and they continue to back their 2 strokes. If Honda stuck with their 2 strokes I probably would have bought a brand new elite off the dealer floor already.

[Lunytune]

as far as the auto emissions, does anyone have any stats for the old opposed four Porche engine (aka bug engine)? that way we can compare apples to apples (air cooled 2 stroke to air cooled four stroke automobile) for fun.

Or what about the VW or *? Now that would surely confuse the equation.

[eliteguy50]

as far as the auto emissions, does anyone have any stats for the old opposed four Porche engine (aka bug engine)? that way we can compare apples to apples (air cooled 2 stroke to air cooled four stroke automobile) for fun.

Or what about the VW or *? Now that would surely confuse the equation.

the porche and vw are the same engine...results of Hitler's left overs and the rest of the world trying to clean it up.
I always have loved the * rotary engine, but I do not feal emissions would be good as it runs like a 'three stroke' but with no strokes at all

[Bear45-70]

Or what about the VW or *? Now that would surely confuse the equation.

the porche and vw are the same engine...results of Hitler's left overs and the rest of the world trying to clean it up.
I always have loved the * rotary engine, but I do not feal emissions would be good as it runs like a 'three stroke' but with no strokes at all

True the VW engine and the Porche 914 engine are the same and of pre WWII origins. However the Porche base pancake engine other than the 914 are all flat 6 cylinder engines developed post WWII.