Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

so she's like her daddy... a bit older and slower, wheezing on steep hills but basically ok?


I am trying to make sense of the bystarte topic that was suggested. I am feeling a bit stupid. 6 hoses? I'm nervous.
I know what a ball valve is, but the rest of it is clear as mud. I'll research more. hopefully my brain will stretch...

the black thing called "bystarter" with the wires is completely gone. all I see is a primer from a riding lawnmower. pics in morning before work. thanks.

I can never find it on the Spree.net but here is the same thing.


http://motorscooterguide.net/Forum/view ... lit=vacuum

Here is the best picture I have of the stock setup.

If the control box is gone and a pump primer is in its place, that would indicate the PO attempted to bypass the system but used a primer bulb instead of a fuel shut-off valve. This could easily be part of the problem in that it may be able to pump additional fuel into the mix but probably wouldn't shut-off that flow completely. The warmed up engine will not run well if this system does not shut off. Here is a pic of how it should have looked originally - the part circled in blue is actually a small air filter and has an element that should be inspected/cleaned or replaced. The 2 hoses coming off of it feed air to the carb (simple venting) and to the control box. The 3 hoses on the control box are (from left to right) output to intake manifold, input fuel from carb, and input air from that filter.



The concept of replacing this system with a manual choke is to bypass the control box by running a hose directly from the carb fuel supply to the intake manifold. In order to shut that flow off when the engine warms up, you place the fuel shut-off valve in that line. Sounds like your PO placed a bulb primer in that line.

Another way to look at it (is it obvious I can't sleep):



If you simply detached hose #1 and hose #2 from the control box and connected them to each nipple of a fuel shut-off valve, the valve could be turned on to supply extra fuel when cold or turned off to close off the fuel when warmed up. The vacuum of the engine would pull the fuel out of the carb thru hose 2 and into the manifold thru hose 1. If you pull those same hoses off at the intake and carb, place caps on those 2 nipples, you have effectively removed the bystarter from the system and you will be able to see how your scooter should run when warmed up.

breaze wrote:Another way to look at it (is it obvious I can't sleep):



If you simply detached hose #1 and hose #2 from the control box and connected them to each nipple of a fuel shut-off valve, the valve could be turned on to supply extra fuel when cold or turned off to close off the fuel when warmed up. The vacuum of the engine would pull the fuel out of the carb thru hose 2 and into the manifold thru hose 1. If you pull those same hoses off at the intake and carb, place caps on those 2 nipples, you have effectively removed the bystarter from the system and you will be able to see how your scooter should run when warmed up.

wow. that's detailed info. thank you very much. I was actually meaning to post pics this afternoon but found myself out in the garage staring at the same hoses you show here. I assumed the bystarter would be oriented in a different location. Looking at all this information, I realized 2 things: 1)the entire bystarter system is present on my Aero80 and 2)It has to be bypassed because I get a headache everytime I look at it.

I'll try to use my Ipod to get some pics up while the light is good so you can see the mess. I may find it easier to just post the link to a video on youtube. I have what appears to be a complete bystarter AND a vaccuum operated primer. How I am getting even 65 mpg I do not know, unless it is somehow stuck in a closed position.

video and pics shortly... never done this before... Seems I have to email the pics and the video clip to myself to get around the security issues for this computer I am borrowing. Syncing to itunes is a no-go... I'm on it, I'll get it done a.s.a.p. -- just gotta figure out the particulars... if I email then download, no problemo, but I can't copy or sync. ah, technology...

I'll git'r'done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22QbM3do ... ata_player


here's the link to the youtube vid. I am prepared to take some ribbing on my fine camera skills.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22QbM3do ... ata_player

attempting pics now...

limited to 3, so here's the 4th,

the new sparkplug boot is my addition. the rest of the rat's nest is how I got it. the little ngk nipple inside the existing plug boot was pretty chewed up and I wanted a better connection. I got this scooter for $350, and before I get laughed outta here, I bought what I could afford to get my butt to work after finding a job. Now to bandage her wounds and get her all better, yes?

In my experience it often makes sense to restore the situation to as original as possible. I would eliminate all the stuff someone added, check to make certain all the vacuum lines are solid (or just replace them), replace the fuel lines, clean the carb and figure a way to create or get a replacement air intake box, properly oil the filter foam, and see what's up. Honda made excellent machines and an awful lot of bozos have screwed them up over the years. Trying to repair a bad idea is a dead end street.

New lines seem like a great idea. I also feel my best solution to the carb mess is to get the dio setup bear suggested. Around boise I could get killed if this old girl can't pull 45 in some areas. I did get her doing 40 consistently for the first time today, however:

I pulled out all the lines (blue ones) for the improvised primer. It was sucking gas constantly. The bystarter appears to work just fine after I cleaned some orangey goo out of the thing it sticks out of (I had expected it to poke down into the carb, but it sits sideways, up above it, into some module or something.) I also put in my new plug boot and a shiny new .28 gapped ngk plug. I put the cheapass 2 stroke oil out for recycling and went to carl's cycle here in Boise and got the honda stuff. Bear said lose the premium, so I fed the rest of that to the lawnmower and filled with regular. altogether, she is up from 38 mph best to today at 42 just briefly on flats, consistent 40. 2 solid mph and less fussy on low speed acceleration. still doesn't idle for crap till warm, and won't idle for more than maybe 5 minutes before just shutting off if I fail to blip the throttle occasionally. I still have some carb issues, obviously. I'd like a 21mm as Bear suggested, with a manual choke that sticks right the * out of the top of the carb. Now, this racing dio intake, is it 21mm as well or do I need to grind it some? I understand the two must be the same diameter, carb and intake?

zadman2012 wrote:New lines seem like a great idea. I also feel my best solution to the carb mess is to get the dio setup bear suggested. Around boise I could get killed if this old girl can't pull 45 in some areas. I did get her doing 40 consistently for the first time today, however:

I pulled out all the lines (blue ones) for the improvised primer. It was sucking gas constantly. The bystarter appears to work just fine after I cleaned some orangey goo out of the thing it sticks out of (I had expected it to poke down into the carb, but it sits sideways, up above it, into some module or something.) I also put in my new plug boot and a shiny new .28 gapped ngk plug. I put the cheapass 2 stroke oil out for recycling and went to carl's cycle here in Boise and got the honda stuff. Bear said lose the premium, so I fed the rest of that to the lawnmower and filled with regular. altogether, she is up from 38 mph best to today at 42 just briefly on flats, consistent 40. 2 solid mph and less fussy on low speed acceleration. still doesn't idle for crap till warm, and won't idle for more than maybe 5 minutes before just shutting off if I fail to blip the throttle occasionally. I still have some carb issues, obviously. I'd like a 21mm as Bear suggested, with a manual choke that sticks right the * out of the top of the carb. Now, this racing dio intake, is it 21mm as well or do I need to grind it some? I understand the two must be the same diameter, carb and intake?

The CT intake will handle from a 21mm carb to a 30mm carb. I still can't figure out where this having to match the intake to the carb stuff came from.

no idea. I must admit I am going almost entirely based upon the posts I am reading as I wait for sleep to take me. I'm just trying to get the machine at the best I can manage. I don't mean to annoy anyone.