Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

I can't say that these conversions are ever done.
This bike started last year as a normal running Elite E (SB) It would go 30 on the speedometer usually (25 gps).

Got the motor on ebay from bettysuegirl last spring. 86 cc ministroker. Converted a pipe for it. 28 mm OKO flat slide carb.

The bike sits about 2" lower in the back and has a 43" wheelbase. It weighs 129 pounds. No major effort to lighten it was made.

I followed my wife into town today. She rode her EliteE and I rode her motorcycle. She maxed at 62 mph. While in town she mentioned that she touched down the expansion chamber doing a right turn. No crash or damage but not a good thing.

Once we got home I got busy and cut off the expansion chamber again by shortening the head pipe another half inch or so, raising the pipe up. I also noted a small bur in the head pipe where I originally welded some sections together, I polished it out. The outside of the pipe isn't that smooth but the inside is much better. I need to get my flap disk working on the outside.

Here is what I ended up with.


I have very light springs in the clutch that engage just above idle. I was thinking of going to slightly heavier to skip over the low end of the engine. My wife took it out for a test spin and said it was running stronger off the bottom. I took a spin and agreed, it was noticeably stronger... hitting the pipe sooner. I think the porting and pipe are becoming more matched and increasing power everywhere. The inside of the head pipe was a nice carmel/chocolate brown.

One thing that I think is significant is the small space that the engine fits into. I have the motor mounts 2 inches further back and an inch lower yet there isn't much space. I have a fairly tight radius head pipe. I know I could have made space by jacking the back up but then I was worrying about the steering getting too quick for speeds above 45.

I checked the overall clutch drum to wheel ratio and it is about 9 and 1/6th or about 9.17:1 Seems pretty good!

That capacitor has caught my eye. Can you elaborate a little more on that? I have 2 scoots and 0 batteries

elitedio wrote:One of things lost in the modification were the centerstand tabs. If I would have looked closer I could have kept them. I figure that I will add a kick stand.

Would you have run into clearance issues with the motor mount if you would have kept the centerstand tabs? Looks like you cut them off, and your mount just fits.

I'll probably need to extend mine further back to keep the centerstand location. I hope to do 2.5" back, 1" down from stock motor mount location.

Greetings:

That's a remarkable project made better by all the hand-made parts you did yourself. You should be very proud.

With stock belt drive and it sounds like 9.1:1 gears, you may have more motor than legs. Any idea what RPM you're spinning at 62 mph?

http://www.tinytach.com/tinytach/commercial.php

Look ma, no wiring. Unfortunately no illumination at night either, but the price is right and installation is... uh... a ground wire and a few wraps around your plug wire. Oh, and some double-sided tape.

Devenex
The capacitor just stores the pulses from the alternator via the regulator/rectifier. It doesn't store energy enough to light the lights without the engine running or to start the engine. Mine is kick only.

I used a burned out computer power supply and took some electrolytic caps out if it. You want to use ones that have a voltage rating above the output of the regulator. I had some 16 volt ones. 20volt would be a bit more rugged. For the amount you would be safe to choose 10,000uF (or sometimes called mf) I used 4700 and it works however. My horn is a bit squeeky at idle bigger would be better. Ebay has lots of them.

Just wire red to + and black to -. You won't have lights without the engine running. I hooked mine in with a connector so I could put small battery if I need to pass an inspection.

Anerbe:
Longer might work but be sure that it has room to fold up. I like the side stand better for general riding.

Wheelman:
I wondered if the gearing is a bit low. I bought the motor built up as is with the 9.1:1 gearing. I am going to get a tach for it. I ran a spread sheet on it using 16.4 wheel diameter, 9.17:1 gearing and a .85 overdrive on the transmission and got 9585 rpm at 60. I showed a max of 62 which might be 9900rpm. What ratio might you suggest? The bike isn't a drag racer and is not ridden much in cities or towns.

Greetings:

I'll bet you're liking the acceleration once the clutch hooks up?
I'm also running 9:1s, with considerably less power than yours likely makes - a mildly ported Nikasil 78cc bore. 9:1 was suggested to me as well. I have no complaints with the pace of acceleration - at all.

I was a bit disappointed that the top speed with this 9500-rpm engine wasn't much - or any - better than I got from the 65cc Malossi Flash II Aero, which had much hotter porting and much taller 7.83:1 gears. However this Elite gets to 50MPH in about half the time. That, along with a rational upper limit of around 55, makes this scooter far more practical as an around-town ride. It'll stay with any surface street traffic pretty easily. Furthermore, Unlike the less-powerful Aero, it'll do that 55 without much regard for wind direction.

At the same time, that type of performance isn't easily conveyed to certain disapproving members of the Forum, who think in terms of peak speed above all. So, do you want to accelerate easily with traffic, enjoy the intense visceral sensations that a well-tuned scooter can provide? If so, stay with 9:1, although your bike could probably pull 8.4s almost as well.

On the other hand, if you simply must post the most-impressive speed numbers to earn yourself the Coveted Bragging Rights of the Forum's Fastest, you can do what many Forum Denizens do:

Lie.

wheelman
Yeah I like the accelration, It is close to genuinely strong for a couple of seconds. Way better than one would expect when comparing it to the bike before the modification.

I have some pretty light, hardware store, springs in the clutch. They engage just above idle. My wife tends to feed the throttle in slower than I do and subsequently she notices the slightly uneven power that the expansion chamber offers. I usually more or less wack it open and it hooks up nice.

I would like to investigate the transmission tuning. I have 5 gram weights at the front and a 2000 rpm spring. I think that they tend to keep the rpm pretty high maybe above the power band. Your idea of a tach would be nice to aid in tuning the transmission.

I had a question from wheelman on what an inside stinger looks like.

Here is the standard exhaust stinger which is common to aftermarket silencers.


I cut it off and slid it up inside. The theory is that the pressure in the fat part of the pipe is lower and the hence less noise. The resonant system is maintained. When I made this change the pipe was dramatically quieter, I was testing it without a silencer.

Now I have a silencer welded on the end.

We are in the process of strengthening the frame. http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewto ... =4&t=12964

elitedio wrote:I can't say that these conversions are ever done.

yup. it's always a work in progress.
Thanks for sharing your project with us. =)
it's come a long way, you've done great work!
love the custom pipe that you made

First post in like forever.
We keep the Lil SB at the farm and it is 3 miles to the first pavement. When I built it, I moved the engine back a couple of inches and used the stock shock and mounts. It sat pretty low and with the shock laid down it reduced the leverage on the shock making it softer than stock. Sort of double soft.

A week ago was riding it and hit a pot hole sending the rear tire in contact with the taillight sucking it into the bike. Enough. The shock needed to be stiffer. I took it out of the bike and thought Lets cut off 40% of the coils and put in a spacer. Easier said than done. I had to make a spring compressor with a couple of forks that replaced the jaws on my vice.

Here is the shock with the water pipe spacer in place of removed part of the spring. It is about a half inch longer and a bunch stiffer.

My wife and I have both taken it out. She likes it I think the front needs a bit of improvement yet. This bike will do 55 mph with me on it. It used to run 25 with the same rider. The engine has not been touched since I installed it into the chassis. I think this is the 4th year on the stroker engine.

I anyone has a stock SB rear taillight or even just a left rear blinker lens. I need it.

The rear shock from a 1980 honda express works perfect.

The front forks from a 1987 se50 can be used for better front suspension.