bystarter cut apart. explained?

[dun rite]

Use picture below as a guide when my wording confuses anyone.
not sure what use this info could be, have recently had issues with my by-starter so decided to dig in and try to understand this thing. Without close inspection I just assumed that one of the springs was heat activated bi-metal. Turns out I was so wrong.
At this point I should mention the by-starter I cut up was not a Honda OEM it was one off of the cheap ebay clone carb. all though they look the same there are some differences, but wont go into those.
I started by cutting the upper plastic portion that holds the wires, in half to look for another possible resistor. Nope nothing just crimped wire ends, which showed no resistance when tested.
So no more heat there. Just the ceramic disc sandwiched between them, also tested this and couldn't find any large resistance as well, so must just act as a heat transfer to the copper cap that is held against it and the wires by a spring. Guess I have to mention that the copy by-starter uses a solid ring terminal on both wires to hold the ceramic disc vs. the Honda one that uses 1 solid and 1 ring type with a hole to fit the ceramic disc, then a spring over the copper cap and tensioned to the terminals, ( confused?)
Decided to cut the copper cap off of the brass part to see what kind of spring was hidden inside. This is where the surprise came in. There was no spring, only a white themal grease inside of the copper part, then a rubber cap that separated the thermal grease inside the copper from Some kind of black gel type stuff inside of the brass section. Can only assume that this is also some kind of heat activated substance. Now this stuff is sealed into the brass portion by a small rubber plug inside of the nose of the brass piece. Against the rubber plug sets a small thin nylon disc that rests against the steel needle inside of the brass parts nose. The steel needle is the first mechanical movement in the by-starter, it is pushed against (what i am calling the lower needle holder) by the expansion of the black gel? inside of the brass thing. which in turn sends the needle into the enrichment tube inside of the carb, while at the same time it makes the small brass cyl. (that that needle goes through) seat against the flat portion of the enrichment tube. ( another copy vs. Honda difference.) the brass collar that the enrichment needle goes through: The Honda one has a rubber seal that seats against top of the enrichment tube whereas the copy is brass only, no sealing surface. Could this cause a slight vac leak through the enrichment holes from air filter side to intake side in carb??? It seems that the small spring that attaches to the enrichment needle only allows the needle and slide to move slightly so they can align with the enrichment tube when extending.
Don't know what good any of this does. Although it would seem that since there are no springs to weaken, then barring any thing plastic breaking or themal compounds going bad, that there would be nothing inside the by-starter that would need anything but a cleaning to make it work.
At least now i know. Sorry if it doesn't help any one.

[dun rite]

OOPS should have stated that I am only assume (*-u-me) that the Honda by-starter also uses the thermal? gels for moving the needles and not a heat sensitive spring. sorry

[Bear45-70]

Honda calls it "wax" but they do not use a heat sensitive spring. Good pics but if the bystarter is bad, I'm lazy and just replace them. I have a number of Aero 125 scooters and that bystarter is unique for a couple of reasons. It screws in and does not use a clip retainer and it is NLA (No Longer Available) with nothing else like to replace it available. However, one of my scooters came with a modified bystarter that works manually with a piece of fish line thru the top. I have not disassembled it as I have 5 good bystarters for my scooters and 2 of them are parts bikes at this time.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Dun-Rite you are too modest. We've all read Legends of Internal "Wax" but AFAIK nobody has ever shown proof to the Forum. I read with great interest, and suggest to the more Cyber-Savvy Mods to insert this into Wiki-Spreedia for Posterior-ity. This is very nice work!

Yes a lousy seal in the Bystarter socket might explain a vac leak. Lots of buyers of Clone Parts from a Certain Asian Superpower have complained of lackluster performance and longevity. The omission of a seal could be part of the explanation. A used Honda bystarter is a safer purchase than a new Chinese one.

If you dissect anything else, please do keep posting.

[noiseguy]

Yes, that's going in the Wiki.

[dun rite]

Wow thanks, that would be a great honor.

[mousewheels]

Yes - nice work 'dun-rite'.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

The Genius of the Bystarter assembly is that Heat is...well, Heat. Whether generated by the heating coil or by proximity to a hot engine, the enrichment system is defeated when the assembly is hot. This is a reason to use the two-layer bystarter insulated cover - otherwise, the "choke" goes back on when it shouldn't, like when you restart a warm engine. Honda's hands-off system works pretty well, for the most part, if left alone.