LED turn signal mod help!!!

[sru_ninja41]

I recently tried switching out my stock signals for LED signals on my 87 spree.

I installed a brand new signal relay as well

After hooking them all up, I go to turn a signal on and instead of the coresponding side lighting up and blinking, all four light up and none of them blink!!

Could this have something to do with them being LED's and not filament bulbs?

PLEASE HELP ME!!!!

[mousewheels]

The stock turn signal flasher needs a load close to two turn signal lamps to flash. For example, if there's one bulb out, that side doesn't flash on my scooter. There are electronic flashers for use with LED's. On the low tech side, could put in a power resistor of the correct value simulating the load of the bulbs.

Don't know why all 4 signals are turning on at once. Check the schematics in the service manual. My understanding is that the turn signal switch energizes only a left or right pair of bulbs through the flasher.

[sru_ninja41]

Thanks for your help! Any other thoughts?

[coolbeans]

I think mousewheels has it right...also, the LED is a diode (the "D") and will only pass current in one direction. Most likely this is messing with the circuit which has a large capacitor to make the relay go on and off. You might try switching them around as they have polarity but I doubt it will work.
LEDs work great in all the other lights on my Aero and when one burns out I replace it with a homemade LED one using the old one as a base.

[scooterwerx]

auto zone and radio shack sell a device called a load equalizer, it is spliced inline and provides the necessary resistance for led's to be driven off of a system meant for incandescent bulb

[sru_ninja41]

Are these load equalizers you speak of expensive?

[Clivester]

I don't recommend load equalizers if you can avoid them. They pull as much power as the original lamps so you loose one major advantage of the LEDs. Also, they can overheat and melt things.

Sounds like your flasher circuits are leaking current to the opposite side. Its not noticable with incandescent lamps, but LEDs draw so little power, it can be enough to light them. Most likely candidates are the flash indicator lamp (if only one is used on the Spree - I don't know) or the flasher unit if it is the "clicker" type. If its the indicator lamp a couple of Radio Shack diodes in the circuit will stop the leak. If its the flasher unit, replace it with one of the eBay LED flashers like this:

http://tinyurl.com/l4mpjv

The third "E" pin can be connected to the frame.

Clive.

[scooterwerx]

yeah, scratch the load equalizers, i didnt know they made led flashers! thanks for the heads up, thats for sure the right way to do it...

[C Jerome]

If its the indicator lamp a couple of Radio Shack diodes in the circuit will stop the leak.

Clive

Could you elaborate on the diodes needed and where to insert them into the wiring. As part of my spree restore project, I am putting in LED turn signals. I have the signals on order and the 'no-load' led friendly relay. I think though even once I install the signals and new relay that both sides will flash at once because of the ground leak across the dash signal indicator light. I dont want to remove the bulb so your help with explaining the diodes will be helpful.

Jerome

[Bear45-70]

I can think of no way the LEDs would cause all 4 to light up when the switch is turned to one direction or the other. Did you rewire it properly? Because that's what I would suspect. Two of the on whatever blinker you turned on, yes but the only way you get all 4 is for their ground to be tied together and not to the frame ground.

[mousewheels]

Hi,
Clivester will have great info on the diodes

The 3.4w pilot bulb depends upon a much larger wattage turn signal bulb on the 'ground' side to light the pilot - yet *not* light the unintended signal lamp. In the OEM circuit, the pilot at 3.4w is small compared to the 23watt signal bulb - and there are 2 of them... LED's are so much lower current draw + the forward voltage is such they won't let much voltage develop across the pilot lamp. Instead - the unintended side lights up. I've verified that finding.

---
This is timely because I've been working on an LED conversion for the Gyro. It has been tested and is functional. Electrically the Gyro is similar to the early Spree. The latest model Spree (1987) no longer used the 'clicker' *and* uses a 3 pin flasher - so only the turn signal pilot lamp needs isolation. But if you have an early model, look for the 'clicker' on the wiring diagram and break it out to place into the path of the diodes. The clicker will also cause an unintended energizing of the other set of LEDs.

The third diode from ground to the other end of the 'clicker' can be left out if you have no clicker or are using the stock pilot lamp. It's to protect an LED replacement for the pilot lamp from spikes when the 'clicker' is present...

1) Redrawn schematic of the components involved (BTW - Spree uses a smaller fuse...). The Pilot lamp and 'clicker' (if present) both provide a low impedance relative to the LED's path which causes the unintended turn signal side to light.

GyroFlasherWiringDiagram.jpg (126.25 KiB) Viewed 7179 times

2) Mods to original wiring with diodes added to isolate the left/right turn signal channels from the turn signal lamp and 'clicker'. For diodes, I am using 1 amp 400v diodes, (1N4004) cost was 0.03 ea.... well then there was shipping. In reality - I got 100 diodes including shipping for 3.00. Ready to mod 33.3 scooters .

GyroFlasherWiring_LED_Conversion_1.jpg (123.53 KiB) Viewed 7179 times

[martynkim]

I have LED's in ALL my sockets without issue. You have a wiring issue.

[C Jerome]

Mouse

Thanks for all the info. This goes along with other info I have read, I have not studied the spree diagram yet, but I think as you said it should be similar.
My signals are on order, when they arrive I will be sure to test them before changing anything in the wiring to see if it works. I have not changed anything yet so in theory it should be stock, maybe I will be lucky like Marty.

Jerome