Oil Tank As An Extra Fuel Tank? (Revisited)

[wiguy05]

Anyway, where to put that valve when running plastics?

I planned on just drilling a hole in the under-seat-bucket and mounting the shutoff under there somewhere out of the way.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Agreed, and a T-valve above the inline filter is a nice idea. However all those hoses and lines are under the saddle bucket, and unless dangling loosely above the hot exhaust header, there's no obvious place to mount the hardware. I'll give this some more thought.

As it is, the fuel gauge on the handlebars still works. However it is extremely pessimistic, showing "Empty" when there's still at least a quart in the tank. With the Oil tank hooked up in parallel with the fuel tank, the "low oil" light comes on only when the fuel level in the 2 tanks gets critically low. That's sort of a nice feature too.

WiGuy05, please show pics when you're done!

[bradthreee]

Greetings:

With the Oil tank hooked up in parallel with the fuel tank, the "low oil" light comes on only when the fuel level in the 2 tanks gets critically low. That's sort of a nice feature too.

I didnt think it was that awesome.... until you made this really good point.

How about adding something like this to the line and using the tank strictly as a reserve?

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Well, predictably my Low Oil lamp went out after a short check ride. No longer Blinded By The Light. The fuel in the oil tank rose to the Main tank level too, as I imagined it would.

The fat line from the oil tank enters the Tee under the rubber band retainer just left of the shock spring. You can see my Cone O'Stone filter just peeking into the pic to the right of the shock spring. I see an opportunity to mount a shutoff valve that could be reached from below the plastics on the right side of the scooter. With the seat bin installed, maybe by a trained Rhesus monkey...

Bad News: The oil tank will drain its contents if the carb float valve ever fails. No Fiery Conflagrations yet, however.
Good news:
1. The Wasted Underseat Space issue is now addressed to Wheelman's Anal Retentive satisfaction.
2. In the event of a Vacuum Failure, scooter will continue to run for about 15 miles.
C. The fuel gauge now drops a lot slower, as it's indicating the fuel level for 2 tanks.
4. Total fuel capacity is now almost 2 Gallons. A good thing when mileage is in SUV Territory.
5. The Low Oil lamp now serves as a "Reserve Warning".

What remains to be seen is if the oil tank and its gauges and lines are Gasoline-resistant as well as resisting oil. The blue color of the fuel is due to Honda-san's own HP-2 Synthetic mixed at 32:1.

Brad To The Third Power: Did you forget to include a link?

[toboggan]

gosh, im still trying to figure this one out right along side you wheel man, this sounds like a great idea, i may be doing this as well, but would like a electric solenoid, bear, could you possibly find one that's rather inexpensive and post a link? you seem to know where to get stuff like this.

I would run that Dupont yellow fuel line everywhere, and add a y fixture to connect both fuel lines, just above the 'y' fixture, add the electric solenoid, and wire it. then below the 'y' fixture add a fuel filter. just incase any crap gets in there from the fuel. is the oil light and fuel guage a garaunteed way to measure the level of fuel in both tanks?

Anyone know at all if i'd be able to use my under floorboard tank too? still trying to figure out how to use that.. any ideas would help a TON.

~toboggan

[mousewheels]

You guys thought and ingenuity are so great! Here's info for thought:

With much appreciated generosity from bradthree a box of donated parts showed up yesterday. Shown here is an oil level switch. Brass spade contacts at the rear are molded into the body and extend to the other end to connect to springy copper contacts. A floating 'anchor' shaped contact bridges the fixed contacts when the oil level is below the setpoint. Near the trigger point, multiple make/break cycles may occur. Shock and vibration can further contribute to multiple make/break cycles.

While some fluid level switches are sealed glass reed switches with a magnet equipped float, this switch runs open to the oil tank. Gas is flammable over a certain range of concentration. An exercise for implementers is to determine conditions within the oil tank will always be safe. Also, could a switch contact arc be an ignition source?

Honda_Oil_Sensor_Switch.JPG (21.24 KiB) Viewed 4548 times

[Bear45-70]

Another thing I stored in my "Might Need Someday" file.

Here's the original thread that Clivester posted it on.

http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewto ... id#p119705

And here's a direct link.

http://www.mccampingsupplies.com/index. ... i2nh269ha7

[Bear45-70]

You guys thought and ingenuity are so great! Here's info for thought:

With much appreciated generosity from bradthree a box of donated parts showed up yesterday. Shown here is an oil level switch. Brass spade contacts at the rear are molded into the body and extend to the other end to connect to springy copper contacts. A floating 'anchor' shaped contact bridges the fixed contacts when the oil level is below the setpoint. Near the trigger point, multiple make/break cycles may occur. Shock and vibration can further contribute to multiple make/break cycles.

While some fluid level switches are sealed glass reed switches with a magnet equipped float, this switch runs open to the oil tank. Gas is flammable over a certain range of concentration. An exercise for implementers is to determine conditions within the oil tank will always be safe. Also, could a switch contact arc be an ignition source?

With only 12 volts the amount of power required to turn on the light being minuscule I doubt there would be and arc. Then again anything is possible. Change the oil light to an LED and it would be next to nothing for power requirements and you could pick the color of your low fuel light.

[toboggan]

You guys thought and ingenuity are so great! Here's info for thought:

With much appreciated generosity from bradthree a box of donated parts showed up yesterday. Shown here is an oil level switch. Brass spade contacts at the rear are molded into the body and extend to the other end to connect to springy copper contacts. A floating 'anchor' shaped contact bridges the fixed contacts when the oil level is below the setpoint. Near the trigger point, multiple make/break cycles may occur. Shock and vibration can further contribute to multiple make/break cycles.

While some fluid level switches are sealed glass reed switches with a magnet equipped float, this switch runs open to the oil tank. Gas is flammable over a certain range of concentration. An exercise for implementers is to determine conditions within the oil tank will always be safe. Also, could a switch contact arc be an ignition source?

With only 12 volts the amount of power required to turn on the light being minuscule I doubt there would be and arc. Then again anything is possible. Change the oil light to an LED and it would be next to nothing for power requirements and you could pick the color of your low fuel light.

If you are going to try the LED thing, heres a link for NICE LED's. and crazy cheap not to mention too.
www.oznium.com

And thanks for the link to the solenoid bear!

[mousewheels]

The Spree wiring diagram shows an LED was used for the indicator. Aero 50 85-87 and Elite SA50 88-02 does not show the indicator as an LED, but it could be.

I don't know the answer for what voltage or current would be safe. Also possibly the vapors stay too rich to ignite.

[bradthreee]

Greetings:

With the Oil tank hooked up in parallel with the fuel tank, the "low oil" light comes on only when the fuel level in the 2 tanks gets critically low. That's sort of a nice feature too.

I didnt think it was that awesome.... until you made this really good point.

How about adding something like this to the line and using the tank strictly as a reserve?

Forgot to post the link

http://www.bobscycle.com/browse.cfm/4,3 ... AFF=690FGL

[toboggan]

brad3,

the thing i see with that is how do you get to it without having to cut plastics or something? and in the case of an accident theres no "safety" shutoff on it.. but a good idea if that stuff doesn't bother you.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Summarizing * Rube Goldberg ghetto-engineered Wheelman idea of combining paltry fuel tank capacity with the quart or so of the oil tank.

Advantages:
1. Extra quart or more of precious fuel onboard for those Alaska Highway stretches.
2. Wheelman''s OCD is assuaged by the wasted space now put to good use.
3. Fuel gauge now falls much slower.
4. Pesky blindingly-bright Low Oil Lamp now serves as a Real Seriously Low Reserve warning.

Disadvantages:

1. Gotta find the little bits to make this happen. Under $10, but add gas to Parts store...
2. Vacuum petcock does not shut off the supply in the Oil Tank in the event of a float valve malfunction or an accident. Maybe I can set things only a Li'l Bit on Fire?
3. You didn't think of it first.

I gotta say I was a bit worried when I left Deepinnaharta for the weekend. My scooter's locked to some stairs and there are 8 apartments sharing this entry way. Fortunately my float needle and line connections remained fuel tight, but still...

So now to remove my one remaining reluctance to this project:

Ta-Freakin-Dah! Fits most tractors with 1/4" fuel line, and some Honda Elites with Tygon. Mounted up right above the carb, below the Cone O' Stone. It's light enough just to dangle if you cut the fuel line just right.

Flash is ready for a 100-mile Dash. Or would be if it ever got 50 MPH. It's more in the Ford Excretion range with this kit, but the extra quart should take me, uh, 6 miles farther down the road.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Well this has worked out for over two years, but the caution is that the float needle becomes your only insurance against a Lake O' Fuel beneath precious Scooter wheels. Or a Lake O' Fire in the event of an errant spark.

I documented elsewhere my recent woes with a year-and-a-half old OKO 26 that was fuel-tight until just a few months ago. Close inspection of the float needles - the old one as well as the new one that came in a Rebuild Kit - revealed a very loose fit in the needle bore. I suspect from the look of the inside of the bore that the steel needle eventually wears the cast Al bore a bit bigger. This allows the needle to go Askew and thus fail to stay on-center to plug the inlet hole. Hence the leak issue.

A manual shut-off valve from the Lawn Mower Repair section of the AutoParts store is a little hard to reach and really easy to forget. Leaks when I park and forget it ON, and embarassing stall when I ride off and forget it's OFF.

One thing that has NOT been an issue is the Dreaded Fiery Cataclysm that theoretically could occur if the LOW OIL switch created a spark in the oil tank full of fuel vapors. Repeated on-off cycles failed to produce ignition last night when I drained the fuel from both tanks.

My 4 year-old Cone-O' Stone inline filter has begun to restrict fuel flow enough to cause starvation issues at WOT lately, so I'm replacing everything downstream of the "Y" connector. Stay tuned.