84 Spree new noise

[breaze]

Argh,
I'm working on an 84 Spree - no mods, just trying to get it running as is. Went thru the carb several times before finally getting the idle jet open - spent way too much time there. Then ended up putting in a new piston, rings, and honing cylinder to get rid of a little top-end chatter. This forum was extremely helpful in those endeavors. I had it running great - sounded good, seemed to run well, I was dying to see how it would run WOT, but reading in here let me know that I needed a break-in period, so I held back.

Well, after my first test drive where I learned that I had eliminated the chatter, when bringing it up the drive, a new high-pitched whirring noise began - wasn't the same rattle-chatter from before - seems to be coming from the drive case. Before turning off, I tried revving the engine to see if it changed, to my surprise, it seems to be un-related to engine speed.

I removed the left-side cover - all looks normal. Today, I plan to get a universal holder, and start pulling things off. I'll check the belt to specs and look at what I can...

I'm a little timid about the clutch - saw some posts where chain wrenches and c-clamps were used...

The scooter has about 1700 miles on it and the noise sounds like bearings to me. Before I dive-in, any suggestions on things to check first?

Also, in order to isolate the noise, I know I can't turn the starter over with the case cover removed, but can I start the engine and then remove the cover?

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

If you pull the cover off a running engine, you run the risk of having the Bendix slip out and collide with the spinning drive pulley. A better way might be to start it using an electric drill fitted with the proper-sized socket.

The clutch assembly freewheels on the transmission input shaft on some long roller bearings. Those can go bad from lack of lubrication. That might be your squeal, or it could be the belt getting too thin to be gripped by the wedge of the front pulleys.

The clutch isn't all that hard to disassemble, but be careful to control the spring tension somehow. I used C-Clamps until I found a good strong Wheelhand was enough. Break that big nut first, then squeeze the pulleys by hand (Or step on the assembly...) and spin the big nut off the rest of the way.

I have never needed to knock out the rear pulley bearings, but the Service Manual outlines the procedure. They're tight, but not super-tight. Inspect and grease thoroughly before driving the bearings back in.

When you reassemble, wipe everything off with Brake (Not Carb) cleaner and have clean hands to avoid any residue of grease or oil on the pulley faces and belt.

Good luck!

[CharlotteSpreeRider]

I would say it's more than likely the belt. If you do get around to fooling with the clutch, that 39mm nut is by far the biggest obstacle. They don't exactly carry that size socket at the local hardware or auto parts store.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Yes the elusive 39mm socket can be a tough find, but there are alternatives for infrequent forays into the Driven Pulley:

If you stabilize everything - this is just one way to do it - you can break that nut with a big Adjustable. Sockets just make it easier.

[breaze]

Well, hopefully a belt replacement will do the trick. After reading thru some of the forums, sounds like a belt can be had without spending $30.00 at Honda dealer and waiting for shipment. But I am a little confused.

I saw that the belt is an AX-24 with a reference to a string listing 'Auto Zone had a "Duralast" 13250 belt'

Is it really possible to just run around the corner to Auto-zone? What would I ask for?

[Bear45-70]

I got my AX-24 at the local Bearing and Industrial Supply store. $16 including shipping and it is the cogged belt.

[breaze]

Well, got the cover off - used a strap wrench to hold the flywheel and clutch cover plate so I could remove the two pulleys. Measured the clutch shoes - within spec. Measured belt thickness - within spec. Cleaned everything off. Re-greased long spindle bearings. Used advice off this forum to hold rear-pulley open with a door shim which made putting the front pulley on much easier. Also followed someone's advice to add just a dab of grease to the tip of the spindle pinion.

Got it all back together - noticed that I could turn the belt without turning the pulleys - seemed strange.

Cranked it up - sounded great again - but after a few minutes, the squeal came back. With the suspicion that it was the belt, everything seemed to fit. Sounded like a car belt when it's loose - seemed to be worse pulling load, etc.

Think I'll start making calls to find the belt - Auto-zone can order it - takes 5 days.

I'll find it somewhere - Guess it's time to get aquainted with my local Bearing and Industrial supply store - not sure what a local Bearing and Industrial supply store is, but I will be.

Thanks all

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

You should not be able to turn the belt without the pulleys turning. If you can, there's your slip/squeal. The rear pulley spring applies the tension to the belt, keeping it very snug in the "wedge" of the front pulleys. One way for the belt to slip is for it to become too narrow - I gather spec for Spree is around 1/2"? Another is for the center spring to become weak. If a clean/new belt doesn't fix the issue, I'd consider a replacement for the center spring.

[breaze]

Well, entered 'Industrial Supply' into my trusty ATT Navigator GPS and got over a dozen hits - began calling down the list and the third call produced 'Grainger Industrial Supply' - less than 6 miles away - 3 in stock (AX24). Of course, it was too late to get there yesterday (Friday) and they are not open today.

The new belts are apparently 628 x 11.4 (24.72" x .45"). Replacement spec is .41" - mine was about .42. Not sure what an AX24 measures.

I think I'm antsy enough that I will take the old belt to Autozone today and see what is the closest match. Something close to 24" x 1/2" should be interesting to try. I'm putting the scooter together for my 14 yr. old daughter (for her 15th birthday) - so the low end torque shouldn't be as important to her as me (at a petite 225 lbs.).

Grainger AX24 at $11.00 - Autozone AX24 (must be ordered) around $6.00 by the way.

Two other issues if you have time to address:

1) With new piston, rings, and honing, what is a good break-in period and how easy should I take it?

2) I had to replace the top of my carburetor - got one from someone in this forum. Works well (once I got pilot jet open), but I noticed one of the thread holes to attach to manifold had been drilled out and tapped one size larger - found larger screw and no problem. Now, however, the other side seems to be stripped. My plan is to pick up a metric tapping set and do the same. I have never done this but I have seen it done and I know that the soft-ness of the metal is an issue - any input, advice?

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

You can tap with an SAE 1/4"x20 and do so without pre-drilling the existing hole. The manifold and brown insulator holes need to be enlarged to 17/64". Hardware store 1/4" bolts available anywhere fasteners are sold in 2" and 1.5" may need to be trimmed so as not to punch holes in the carb. 7/16" or 11mm socket will fit the new bolt heads. The slightly larger screw diameter will be a bit stronger, but hold the Wheaties when you snug down into those new-made Aluminum threads. Just enough to squeeze the O-rings.

[breaze]

Great info on the threading - thx.

Latest on belt - picked up un-notched 1/2" x 24 and 1/2" x 25 belts at NAPA today. Started to go for the Duralast 13250 but it was thinner and thought it would be even looser. The 24" had no prayer of going on - the 25 went on very tight. A quick trial showed that it did not want to start out at all - shuddered and quaked. Once it got going downhill, though, sky might have been the limit if I hadn't wanted to stay close to home knowing I would have to come back up the hill.

Completely un-rideable with that belt - I may try the Duralast tomorrow, they're only $5-$6 each, but more than likely, I'll wait and get the AX24 on Monday.

[breaze]

By the way, looks like the AX24 is 1/2" wide by 26" long by 5/16" thick and can be ordered thru Amazon for about $5.00 - about 11.00 with shipping.