Need your advice Piston and Rings 86 Spree

[HondaOnly]

Okay so since it's finally winter in Michigan I decided to give a go at repairing my spree. Have the head/cylinder/piston taken off currently. I've attached images below of piston...

Would like recommendations on what to replace pistons/rings/head etc.

Symptoms:
Top Speed 30MPH
High pitch loud pinging/clanking sound very high frequency all the time
Started and ran well even at high speed

86 Spree
5591 miles or so










This the first motor I've ever taken apart or worked on but to me the rings seemed to have a lot of play on them like they are too big? They don't seem worn out at all though and it wasn't like they would slip right off of the piston.

The top of the piston was very black and carbonized it also looked to have tons of small little marks all over the central area as if maybe the piston was hitting the spark plug but I'm not for sure on that.

[Pete M]

http://www.hondaspree.net/other/Spree_NQ50_84-87_1.pdf

[HondaOnly]

I already read all of that in the first place to take it apart. I wanted some peoples advice on whether I should replace the piston, rings, head, or a combination of those based on the pictures and diagnosis I posted. I have calipers but I don't trust them to be completely accurate and want to know what I should try to replace from the experts on here.

[HondaOnly]

[patthesoundguy]

Just replace the piston as an assembly with new pin and rings and circlips. Go to eBay and buy a piston kit from Taz who is chop chop on eBay. Go get a brake cylinder hone and clean up the cylinder and give it a proper cross hatched surface. Wash the cylinder with warm water and dish soap, and replace the base and head gasket and assemble according to the manual. That thing will be a whole new machine. Port the cylinder a little while you have it off and you will unlock some more performance. Its pretty easy to do. Make sure you heat cycle the engine a whole bunch and break everything in gently with a little extra oil in the fuel and tank and no wide open throttle for a while and vary the throttle position a lot during break in.

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[patthesoundguy]

Love to see better pics because we can't see the condition of the cylinder.

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[HondaOnly]

Just replace the piston as an assembly with new pin and rings and circlips. Go to eBay and buy a piston kit from Taz who is chop chop on eBay. Go get a brake cylinder hone and clean up the cylinder and give it a proper cross hatched surface. Wash the cylinder with warm water and dish soap, and replace the base and head gasket and assemble according to the manual. That thing will be a whole new machine. Port the cylinder a little while you have it off and you will unlock some more performance. Its pretty easy to do. Make sure you heat cycle the engine a whole bunch and break everything in gently with a little extra oil in the fuel and tank and no wide open throttle for a while and vary the throttle position a lot during break in.

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Thanks for the reply pat... Okay that's kind of what I was contemplating as my first option but I want to go as cheap as possible. I definitely won't get the cylinder re-bored I'm not looking for that much hassle.

Do you think it would be possible to just clean up the top of the piston and put on new rings for a quick and cheap partial fix?

I'm not looking for anything close to a speed machine just something that will run a few hundred miles reliable and not damage anything worse than it is already.

If I can just slap on new rings and gaskets for $15 - $30 bucks and get rid of the pinging noise and gain 2mph I will be happy! Like I said this thing already ran and started fine before I disassembled minus the PIIIIiiiinnnngg.

[patthesoundguy]

Sure you might fix some of the piston slap doing that, just hone the bore. A new piston and rings from taz is not too much more than rings really. If you reuse the piston take the extra time to clean the grooves as clean as possible. I use some steel wool in the sink to clean the the piston up real nice, then I take a 220 grit sanding sponge and cross hatch the piston so there is more room for oil to go around the piston. The most important thing to do is hone that cylinder, its waaay too shiny to have anyplace for the oil to live between the rings and cylinder walls. I guess honing isn't really what you are doing you are de-glazing it you can bet one of these any where
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-1-8-eigh ... 97163.html
Its a really easy thing to do, coat the stones and cylinder with oil, stick it in a vise gently and put the hone in a drill crank the tension up on the hone after you put the stones in the cylinder. Slowly spin the hone and work it up and down. Don't go to far down because the stones will catch in cut-outs. I may post a video on how to do it in the next few days. Just make sure you wash the cylinder really well with dish soap and hot water a ton. Do not use brake clean it will leave junk behind that will trash the cylinder. Dry the cylinder with lint free rag and compressed air if you have it, oil the bore right away with 2stoke oil, have it handy before you wash, bare cast iron flash rusts before your eyes.


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[patthesoundguy]

I bet your bore looks like this...

It should look like this...


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[patthesoundguy]

And and one more thing... Do not reuse the circlips that hold the piston pin in place, buy new ones if you don't get a piston kit. A couple buck in clips will save cylinder and piston from destruction.

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[HondaOnly]

anybody think just rings and clips will suffice?

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

At 6K miles it's not clear there was anything to "Fix". Did you check compression before dismantling?
Now that it's apart, might as well go for a new piston, as some wear can cause piston slap, which may have been the rattling you reported. An incorrect spark plug, or just thick carbon on the crown could do it too, but it was healthy if it ran 30. Have the cylinder honed: just a light resurfacing, not a bore. For the price, a new piston, rings wrist bearing and pin along with clips should suffice. Consider decarbonizing the pipe too.

Piston rings always feel loose on the piston. They tighten up to ends nearly touching in the bore. Add operating temp and they seal tight there too. I'm not sure you can't just clean the piston crown and reassemble existing parts and verify the correct spark plug. New clips and gaskets of course.

[HondaOnly]

Greetings:

At 6K miles it's not clear there was anything to "Fix". Did you check compression before dismantling?
Now that it's apart, might as well go for a new piston, as some wear can cause piston slap, which may have been the rattling you reported. An incorrect spark plug, or just thick carbon on the crown could do it too, but it was healthy if it ran 30. Have the cylinder honed: just a light resurfacing, not a bore. For the price, a new piston, rings wrist bearing and pin along with clips should suffice. Consider decarbonizing the pipe too.

Piston rings always feel loose on the piston. They tighten up to ends nearly touching in the bore. Add operating temp and they seal tight there too. I'm not sure you can't just clean the piston crown and reassemble existing parts and verify the correct spark plug. New clips and gaskets of course.

Alright thanks to you and Pat, I think I'll shop around a bit and see if I can get some oem replacement parts and go from there.

[patthesoundguy]

Here is the link to the full kit from Taz. It has clips rings and a piston. I have one of those waiting to go in my spree. You will probably find by the time you buy all of the bits from Honda that the whole kit rings and all will make sense.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Spree-NQ5 ... 564b237d3a


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[HondaOnly]

I'm just gonna clean the piston up, ordered new rings, clips, gasket and spark plug from my local honda dealer cheaper than having stuffed shipped even from the lowest priced oem parts sites. See how it works in about 4 months