Argh! Scooter won't start + father-in-law = Frustration

Trying to get your Spree/Elite to run, or run better? Post your questions here.

Moderator: Moderator

User avatar
GIJoeBob
Elite
Elite
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:40 pm
Location: Nacogdoches, Texas
Contact:

Argh! Scooter won't start + father-in-law = Frustration

Post by GIJoeBob »

This weekend I started work on my first scooter, a 1987 Elite 50s.

The bike is in good cosmetic shape with just a few dings and the main problem is fade on the plastic. I'll be painting to take care of that.

The majority of the electrical system seems to be working with the key turning things on, the brake light, turn signals and horn work. The headlight does not work and neither does the starter.

I took off the carb and cleaned it according to documents I found here on the site. I could spray a bit of starter fluid through the carb and crank the kick start and it would sputter for a bit so I was hopeful.

The petcock seems hosed as it seems to be allowing fuel into both the feed line and the vacuum line. I hope to get a replacement soon.

I decided to look at the starter issue when my father-in-law dropped by to check on my progress. He works on Honda motorcycles and ATVs as a hobby and has done so for years so I hold his opinion high.

I told him I thought it would be best to start with the simple things and work from there, make sure the starter button is working (remember this part for later), make sure the wiring between the button and the starter is sound and then check the starter itself.

He said we should start with the starter as in his experience that is where the problem usually found. I go along with this and check out the starter diagram and point out the two mounting bolts that hold the starter to the crankcase. He tells me that we need to just unscrew the two Phillips screws instead. It doesn't look right to me but he's the expert so I follow along.

Well, we remove the two screws and the housing to the starter motor comes right off and the guts of the starter spill all over the place.

I'm kinda irked at this point. We gather up all the pieces and determine that nothing was harmed in this, we just need to reassemble the motor. I tell him I'll just get the socket wrench and remove the two bolts that hold the starter to the crankcase so we can reassemble the starter on the bench. "Nah" he says. That will be too much trouble, we'll just fix it on the bike. Ummmm, ok :|

So, we get the springs and brushes back where they need to be and try to hold them in place with screwdrivers while trying to stab the rotor back into place. So we have two screwdrivers and one of my big man hands trying to fit into this cramped little space and the rotor just doesn't want to fit right. I pull it back out only to see one of the brushes is now broken in half!! :x

My father-in-law looks at me and says "Well, I guess you get to do what you wanted in the first place and take off those bolts." :x :x

He then leaves and tells me to let him know when I get it fixed.

I pull a working starter from one of the other bikes and install it. No worky. I backtrack from there and determine that the problem is:

DA DA DUM!!! - the starter button

So tonight I hope to get it replaced with one of my parts scooters. Working alone. :roll: :lol:
User avatar
hondaman
Elite
Elite
Posts: 529
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 1973 10:24 am

Post by hondaman »

You do know that the brake lever has to be engaged for the starter to work. Headlight will not come on unless the engine is running. It sounds like you will have better luck working alone.
User avatar
Dac
Veteran OG
Veteran OG
Posts: 3342
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: SouthWest Michigan
Contact:

Post by Dac »

something i did on my sundiro. just have a wire (12v or bigger, to small and it will melt) going from the positive on the battery to a push button then a wire from that the the starters +.
then a wire from the starters - to the - on the battery.
i hide the button under be hide my front turning signal so when i loose my key (i never had one to start with.) i still can be started.
Note-this does make it really easy for some one else to steal so i would only do this on a junker moped
"Its not what you ride, its that you ride"
1996--------Honda Elite S-
1991--------Tomos Targa-
And a Bunch of other bikes.
User avatar
GIJoeBob
Elite
Elite
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:40 pm
Location: Nacogdoches, Texas
Contact:

Post by GIJoeBob »

hondaman wrote:You do know that the brake lever has to be engaged for the starter to work. Headlight will not come on unless the engine is running. It sounds like you will have better luck working alone.
AHHH, thanks for the tip!
User avatar
GIJoeBob
Elite
Elite
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:40 pm
Location: Nacogdoches, Texas
Contact:

Post by GIJoeBob »

Dac wrote:something i did on my sundiro. just have a wire (12v or bigger, to small and it will melt) going from the positive on the battery to a push button then a wire from that the the starters +.
then a wire from the starters - to the - on the battery.
i hide the button under be hide my front turning signal so when i loose my key (i never had one to start with.) i still can be started.
Note-this does make it really easy for some one else to steal so i would only do this on a junker moped
One of the sprees I have is wired just this way. :lol:
User avatar
Dac
Veteran OG
Veteran OG
Posts: 3342
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: SouthWest Michigan
Contact:

Post by Dac »

yeah i got my sundiro from a old friend who said "my uncles little devil children busted were the keys go" so he put this on there, in all reality i think its stoled but i dont care.
when he first got it from god knows were 2 years ago i tried buying it from him but he wouldn't sell it. now 2 years later with almost every part on the thing busted he sold it for 20$
"Its not what you ride, its that you ride"
1996--------Honda Elite S-
1991--------Tomos Targa-
And a Bunch of other bikes.
User avatar
GIJoeBob
Elite
Elite
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:40 pm
Location: Nacogdoches, Texas
Contact:

Post by GIJoeBob »

GIJoeBob wrote:
hondaman wrote:You do know that the brake lever has to be engaged for the starter to work. Headlight will not come on unless the engine is running. It sounds like you will have better luck working alone.
AHHH, thanks for the tip!
Let me ask for a clarification on this if I might.

I have a working starter but the button does not seem to work. I checked the button for continuity and it shows a completed circuit with the button not pressed as well as when it is pressed. Is that normal?
Kenny_McCormic
CBR1000RR
CBR1000RR
Posts: 4957
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:51 am
Location: Southern Michigan

Post by Kenny_McCormic »

Test it while holding the brake. I had this problem a couple years ago until i figured out you had to apply the brake.(previous owner had hotwired the starter due to a bad switch)
I am not a mechanic, nor do I play one on TV. Actually my advice is probably worth slightly less than what you pay to view it.
User avatar
GIJoeBob
Elite
Elite
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:40 pm
Location: Nacogdoches, Texas
Contact:

Post by GIJoeBob »

I have the starter working now and I get spark but the engine will not start.

The carb is clean but I suspect the petcock is bad but I can't even get the scooter to turn over when I spray start fluid down the carb.

Ideas?


Thanks.
User avatar
GIJoeBob
Elite
Elite
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:40 pm
Location: Nacogdoches, Texas
Contact:

Post by GIJoeBob »

GIJoeBob wrote:I have the starter working now and I get spark but the engine will not start.

The carb is clean but I suspect the petcock is bad but I can't even get the scooter to turn over when I spray start fluid down the carb.

Ideas?


Thanks.
Yeah, the petcock is bad alright. Fuel pours out the vacuum line into the carb. Great.

Where is the best place to purchase a replacement?
Kenny_McCormic
CBR1000RR
CBR1000RR
Posts: 4957
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:51 am
Location: Southern Michigan

Post by Kenny_McCormic »

Honda powersports dealer this is something best bought new.
I am not a mechanic, nor do I play one on TV. Actually my advice is probably worth slightly less than what you pay to view it.
User avatar
Gamemedic
Spree
Spree
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:00 pm
Location: Clawson, MI

Post by Gamemedic »

partsfish is good. I just got mine from them, took 2-3 weeks but is genuine honda.
User avatar
GIJoeBob
Elite
Elite
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:40 pm
Location: Nacogdoches, Texas
Contact:

Post by GIJoeBob »

Gamemedic wrote:partsfish is good. I just got mine from them, took 2-3 weeks but is genuine honda.
Yeah, I've been there, but 2 to 3 weeks? Wow. :?
User avatar
Dac
Veteran OG
Veteran OG
Posts: 3342
Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: SouthWest Michigan
Contact:

Post by Dac »

a honda dealer, they'll have one to you in 3days flat
"Its not what you ride, its that you ride"
1996--------Honda Elite S-
1991--------Tomos Targa-
And a Bunch of other bikes.
User avatar
GIJoeBob
Elite
Elite
Posts: 769
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:40 pm
Location: Nacogdoches, Texas
Contact:

Post by GIJoeBob »

Dac wrote:a honda dealer, they'll have one to you in 3days flat
I have the petcock ordered.

In the mean time I would like to get the other issue taken care of.

The engine gets spark when the plug is pulled and held close to the engine block, but when installed and a shot of starter fluid is shot into the carb or spark plug hole it acts like it is not getting spark.

Any ideas?
Post Reply