Same Idle issue as most people...can't seem to taste victory

ferchja · Post by **ferchja** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:18 pm

Have oil pump running....overnight soak in parts washer unplugged it.

Now can get the spree to start with no throttle with idle mixture set to 1.875 turns and idle throttle position screw at 1 turn. Got it to idle for like 2-3 minutes....but the minute I touch the throttle it dies. Air cleaner in it and clean, carb cleaned with all holes checked.

When hot I cannot start it without pulling the spark plug and spraying it with carb cleaner...when I put it back it will start right away, but then dies only faster than before....

I have read so many freakin' posts about this I am starting to lose it.....

I JUST WANT IT TO WORK

Is that so wrong....I have come so far and to not get it to run smooth will cause me a meltdown....serenity now!

vette76 · Post by **vette76** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:32 pm

did u add new rings? sounds like it could be a compression problem.

ferchja · Post by **ferchja** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:36 pm

Yes new rings....will check now to see what it holds....please hold

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Pressure is at 95PSI.....with new rings.....new head gasted and jug gasket......going to freakin' kill something....going to put an axe right down the middle of this beast

ferchja · Post by **ferchja** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:44 pm

What would happen if I stuck a rag down a full gas tank and lit it?

Ned · Post by **Ned** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:02 am

You wouldn't have any more Spree problems...

ferchja · Post by **ferchja** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:32 am

yes, yes....no more spree problems...I like the way you think......

Measured gaps on new rings (inserted into jug with piston) and they showed lower at .014" and upper at .008" both are within service limit of .0197" (say .020") Jug is perfect with no scaring or sratches. So without measuring the jug (telescoping Ts at father-in-laws) it would seem that the new piston rings are properly seating themselves.

Will order new head gasket and re-torque...in the mean time will check the piston and jug again....they measure well within spec prior to assembly. Will also have someone check the head and top of jug to see that they are straight.

Looked in service manual yesterday and read the first indication of poor start, bad idle was bad head gasket....It may be right....who knows.

I will have done nearly every trouble shooting task in the freakin service manual....I will succeed...that is all

ferchja · Post by **ferchja** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:42 am

Can I just retighten the head, with the new gasket, (ie reuse it cause I just bought it)? Or are they one shot and out?

Post by **noiseguy** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:37 am

People will argue that the head gasket is a one-shot deal. If you're checking the compression you can tell if it's seating or not. I woudn't mess with it at this point.

95 PSI is at the low end; should be higher with new rings. Are you opening the throttle when you do the compression test?

Sounds like your idle circuit is blocked. Check it again to make sure you can get carb cleaner to blast through it.

vette76 · Post by **vette76** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:02 pm

check the old head gasket and make sure it is etched looking on both sides and all the way around to make sure its a good seal. also make sure the reed valve set is working properly.

ferchja · Post by **ferchja** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:07 pm

I checked the idle circuit and the little pin hole at the bottom of the chamber with a light in a dark room, and I could see light through it.

I will retorque the old head gasket and see what I get...I have ordered a new one that should be here Friday. Won't kill me to put the jug back on and test. If that works I will have some head and jug gaskets to sell. I also ordered new head bolts ($0.80 each). I will also check both decks on the jug as well as the cylinder head to make sure they are not warped or damaged.

It did idle for 2-3 minutes and it runs very well at full throttle, seems that was the only way to get it to drop to a steady idle after starting it. Cold starts its great and when its hot, it will not start unless you leave it sit for 3-5 minutes.

Thanks

mikehailwood · Post by **mikehailwood** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:16 pm

You may have already checked this, but...in the carb float bowl there is that wall separating the choke pickup tube from the rest of the float bowl. Make sure the hole in this wall is cleaned out thouroghly so that sufficient gas can enter this chamber for the for the entire warmup time. If there is not enough gas in this chamber, the choke system may only enrich the mixture for as long as there is fuel to do so. It may run out of supply before the cold engine is warm.

ferchja · Post by **ferchja** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:50 pm

Ok, retorqued and reused new head gasket showed 114-115 psi....so we are good there.

Finally got it to respond like it should if I disconnected and removed the auto-bystarter and put my thumb over the hole. If I held my thumb there it would idle perfectly started in like 1 second and would throttle up and down like a champ. Take my thumb off and it would race up then down then quit like it was doing with the whole thing assembled. Resistance on bystarter is within scope.....the idle circuit which I know is clean....enriching circuit is clean...so I will check the auto bystarter and resister per the service manual.

Will get back to everyone tonight.....stay tuned....

UPDATE: By starter is working....O-ring is not

....the problem is the oring around the bystarter was shot and not sealing. I had another o-ring, not the right thickness, and put that at the bottom of the bystarter hole sitting on the carb loose, and just put the bystarter in so the neddle and cylinder were inside the oring and let the bottom of the bystarter seal it, and cranked it down and then it was as good as ...(crossed fingers)... new. It starter and ran like I had my thumb over it, mind you it was not connected at the wiring. So with the old oring=no good, thumb=good, oring at bottom=good. Problem oring! Will get proper oring tomorrow....going to bed....

I am going to have a ton of parts from the Honda dealer to sell if anyone wants them....let me know I will list them in the for sale forum.

Head gaskets (3), jug gaskets (2), head bolts (4), exhaust mounting studs (2)

ferchja · Post by **ferchja** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 1:09 am

FINISHED....first I would like to thank Noiseguy, Vette76, Mikehailwood, Paul in Freeport, and all the others that had to live with my posts.

I ended up breaking the plastic clips that hold the needle and barrel on the bystarter. Oh well...I just put the needle and barrel in the carb and plugged it up, its 70-90 degrees here so with a little starter fluid it warms up within a few seconds to maintain idle without the enriching cirucit. I will get a new bystarter soon.

My last problem was solved by Jerry on a previous post on no top end power. The main jet which I thought was cleared was about 90% plugged with some goo. I recleaned it with a wire and now it ran 25mph up about a 6% grade with me on it...a 6'4" 250lbs linebacker on it. I went around the block a few times with no problems no worries...this is without a battery and no kick start for me to get back home. The main jet is huge. It is large enough to almost read print through. Its a 65/68 jet so I think that is the recommend jet.

I will now be able to tune the carb and get it running perfectly. My compression at hot temperatures is 105 psi, so I am going to put a new head gasket on it. I think my last 114 psi reading was on a cooler engine this time it was dam hot.

Thanks again for all the help on this forum...I hope to now be able to contribute with my new gained knowledge.

I promised I would post pics of the process and will get those up when the painting is done.

vette76 · Post by **vette76** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:43 am

glad to hear the nightmare is finally over man.

Post by **noiseguy** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:54 am

Congrats on the running Spree!

25 MPH uphill is respectable; sounds like things are working out. The main jet should be a #65. Contact drichardson@core.com for a jet and a new bystarter. The leaner jet should actually help top end.