Spree Mystery

[Bear45-70]

My spree has no bystarter needle either, so I am guessing it's running rich as well. What's the consequences for this?

Two strokes running rich tend to loose their oiling ability due to the gas diluting the oil and washing what oil there is away. Not enough oil and metal to metal happens in rotating and moving parts. In other words, not good.

[PimpinSpree]

it'll run rich, but i think only when you first give it gas. Its real awkward

just leave it on, you'll be happier

[CaptDan]

i used to not believe in the bystarter, but now im a firm believer in it


everything just seems to be unreliable without it

your problem has to be the carb though, although you say it only needs to sit a few minutes before it will run good again. Doesn't sound like enough time to cool off much

I'm sure it's the carb. The float valve was definatley 'stuck on stupid' when I took the carb apart.

It makes sense. If the carb bowl fills up, the engine will only run as long as the supply lasts. With a stuck float, no additional fuel is allowed to run causing the motor to quit. Then, a fresh supply trickles down (aided by an 'always-on' petcock), then the motor fires and runs 'till the bowl is dry, etc etc.

I'd like to find the bystarter needle, but it's literally a needle in a haystack. There are new units available on eBay - for about $60. Too bad to have to spend that much for 12 cent needle.

CaptDan

[Clivester]

Another thought.

Take the fuel filter that PO added off the bike and just run a line straight from petcock to carb. If s/he used a car filter they have too much resistance to fuel flow (a proper "small engine" or motorcycle filter should be used). That could account for the running, then wait, then running scenario you experience.

Clive.

[CaptDan]

Another thought.

Take the fuel filter that PO added off the bike and just run a line straight from petcock to carb. If s/he used a car filter they have too much resistance to fuel flow (a proper "small engine" or motorcycle filter should be used). That could account for the running, then wait, then running scenario you experience.

Clive.

Good idea. But I think the filter IS a proper motorcycle/small engine in-line filter. It's similar to the one I installed some years ago on a '57 Johnson outboard tank that employs a double-line pressurized fuel delivery. Never a problem with that bad boy.

On the other hand, if the issue DOES continue after I get the bike charged up tomorrow, I'll take your suggestion. * - I'll take ANY suggestion that works. But again, that float valve WAS stuck before I freed it up, so I'm betting that's the cause.

I'll keep you posted.

CaptDan

[Bear45-70]

Another thought.

Take the fuel filter that PO added off the bike and just run a line straight from petcock to carb. If s/he used a car filter they have too much resistance to fuel flow (a proper "small engine" or motorcycle filter should be used). That could account for the running, then wait, then running scenario you experience.

Clive.

Good idea. But I think the filter IS a proper motorcycle/small engine in-line filter. It's similar to the one I installed some years ago on a '57 Johnson outboard tank that employs a double-line pressurized fuel delivery. Never a problem with that bad boy.

On the other hand, if the issue DOES continue after I get the bike charged up tomorrow, I'll take your suggestion. * - I'll take ANY suggestion that works. But again, that float valve WAS stuck before I freed it up, so I'm betting that's the cause.

I'll keep you posted.

CaptDan

No problem with the filter on the outboard because the tank was pressurized and forced the fuel thru the filter like a fuel pump does. On the scooter there is only gravity feed with way less pressure.

[Clivester]

On the scooter there is only gravity feed with way less pressure.

Bear45-70 you beat me to it

Clive.

[CaptDan]

On the scooter there is only gravity feed with way less pressure.

Bear45-70 you beat me to it

Clive.

And of course, you're right.

I did as suggested - ran a straight line to the carb, no filter. After cleaning the plug, checking the gap, and charging the battery, the bike started right up.

I rode it around the block several times, adjusted the throttle and mix. Scoot ran beautifully, and NO fuel interruption! I stopped, restarted several times, and all was well.

But then....CRAP! I hear a strange sound from the crankcase. Then, no power to the wheel. I shut the bike down, thinking it was a broken belt.
I pulled the crankcase cover to discover the pulley bolt loose, the pulley unseated, and the starter pinion askew.

I retightened the pulley bolt and realigned the pinion. Now - NO juice to the starter - even with the cover back on. d***! Did I fry the starter?
Or - is there an internal ground/connection I missed? Where can I check with a DMM?

This is NOT good; more than I bargained for, despite the bike's low miles and clean condition. Any advice appreciated.

Again.

CaptDan

[Bear45-70]

I don't see how you could have fried the starter. First, ok this will sound stupid, but...... Do you have the brake on when you are trying to crank the engine? If so, you need to make sure the starter will turn over by hand as you could have broken it when the bolt came loose. Check to see if you have voltage to the starter when you punch the starter button. If no, then either the starter solenoid/relay is bad or disconnected or the push button is bad. If yes and the starter turned over by hand, then the starter is bad.

[Clivester]

I would open up the cover and re-check that everything is lined up correctly. The starter pinion has to be seated in the bearings at both ends. Make sure it can turn freely against the starter i.e. that neither the pinion nor starter shaft were bent by the loose pulley. I don't know how far you want to go, but the best check would be to pull of the front geared side of the pulley again and leave it off. Stick the starter pinion back in and temorarily place the cover back with a couple of screws. Now try the starter. It should now run freely (the bike won't start because it won't be turning the crank). Don't run it too long- just enough to check. If the starter turns its likely something was binding. At the same time check the crank turns freely.

When you replace the pulley, make sure its on good and tight. Use locktite if you have it. generally its hard to get it tight enough without an impact wrench or flywheel holding tool due to the tendency of the crank to want to turn. Best done with flywheel holding tool + torque wrench. You can make a tool from two pieces of bar steel.

Clive.

[CaptDan]

I would open up the cover and re-check that everything is lined up correctly. The starter pinion has to be seated in the bearings at both ends. Make sure it can turn freely against the starter i.e. that neither the pinion nor starter shaft were bent by the loose pulley. I don't know how far you want to go, but the best check would be to pull of the front geared side of the pulley again and leave it off. Stick the starter pinion back in and temorarily place the cover back with a couple of screws. Now try the starter. It should now run freely (the bike won't start because it won't be turning the crank). Don't run it too long- just enough to check. If the starter turns its likely something was binding. At the same time check the crank turns freely.

When you replace the pulley, make sure its on good and tight. Use locktite if you have it. generally its hard to get it tight enough without an impact wrench or flywheel holding tool due to the tendency of the crank to want to turn. Best done with flywheel holding tool + torque wrench. You can make a tool from two pieces of bar steel.

Clive.

I have a flywheel puller. I used it to remove the steering wheel from my sailboat several months ago. It's the 'gripping finger' style, tightened with a ratchet wrench. You think that might do it?

I did get the pulley fairly tight using two wrenches - one on the flywheel nut after I removed the fan, the other on the pulley itself. Problem is, I've been trying to follow the instructions in the tech manual, but the pictures are so high contrast, I'm not sure I've assembled the pully correctly. Also, the manual doesn't show the electric start only unit - just the kickstart version.

I'm sure something is binding, but I can't tell what. I got the bike to start again, then the pulley misbehaved. Maybe the washers are in the wrong place. * if I know. I'll get back to it tomorrow when I'm fresh.

Good news, though - I found the bystarter needle and reassembled the unit.

The bike sure runs well when it does. I wish I could get everything worked out so I can ride it a bit.

Thanks for your help, Clive. I appreciate your helping a spud like me out. I'll keep you posted.

CaptDan

[CaptDan]

First, ok this will sound stupid, but...... Do you have the brake on when you are trying to crank the engine?

Uh...believe it or not, in my haste, I forgot that step. You'd think by now I'd know better.

But yes - I didn't have the brake engaged. Frustration has a way of interrupting memory.

CaptDan

[PimpinSpree]

i bought a cheap impact gun at walmart just for doing this, the clutch and flywheel nuts

best $20 i ever spent

[CaptDan]

i bought a cheap impact gun at walmart just for doing this, the clutch and flywheel nuts

best $20 i ever spent

Thanks for the tip. I'll run down to WallyWorld tomorrow and get one.

Now, just to be sure I have this right:

When I install the drive gear the sequence is like this:

1. Thrust washer

2. Drive pulley inner face (with fins facing inward)

3. Lay drive belt over inner pulley flange

4. Be sure starter pinion is seated.

5. Attach outer drive gear

6. Washer

7. Nut

8. Tighten

Last time I did the assembly, the outter gear wobbled a bit. When I tried the starter, I heard a screeching as though the belt was slipping in the pulley.

Do I have this right or not?

CaptDan

[Clivester]

Yep, that's how it goes (so long as you are calling the slightly larger washer the thrust washer).

And don't forget, the starter pinion needs to be in its bearing on the transmission cover before attempting to start the engine.

Clive.