Help with getting the SE50 started!!!

bradthreee · Post by **bradthreee** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:41 am

Still trying to get the SE50 started!
I checked compression and I'm @ 80psi. Carb has been cleaned thouroghly. Petcock is functioning properly and gas is getting to the carb. When I release the drain screw on the carb fuel comes out so I know its getting to the carb. I pulled the plug and it looks like it is wet and possibly oily. I'm getting spark @ the plug as well.
I'm stumped for now and was hoping I could get some advise before I start on it again this Friday on my day off.

Much appreciated,

Brad

bakaracer · Post by **bakaracer** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:58 am

How consistant is the spark when you checked it?also 80 psi sound low. but should at lease fire up.

evilone · Post by **evilone** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:13 am

Yeah 80 psi is low, around 130 is good.

Wheelman-111 · Post by **Wheelman-111** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:00 am

Greetings:

I agree 80 may be low but it should at least cough.

Fuel: Jet size, correct carb assembly and all that? Reeds? If the fuel is coming in wet, it may not be combustible. It may also have fouled the current plug to where it displays spark in the open but grounds out under compression.

Have you tried simply swapping in a new plug?

Was there any dismantling of the electrics in your rebuild? Longshot, but if the spark is coming out of phase with compression stroke it would explain a failure to ignite.

gashead · Post by **gashead** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:49 am

I have had problem with fouled plugs, cheaking spark they fire a yellowish,
replacing with new, spark more blueish and able to start.

May not be your problem just something i have ran into.
80 psi is on low side but shoud run.

gashead · Post by **gashead** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:00 pm

Correction to first post, cheaking = checking

bradthreee · Post by **bradthreee** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:48 pm

Jet size is @ 85 which is where its supposed to be. I will try a new plug for sure.

Spark is pretty constant but firing a little on the yellow side.

The reeds seem to be intact as well as the gasket but I will get a new intake mani gasket once I get those wheelman special carbon reeds installed.

I checked the piston and the sides of the cylinder wall and there is no scoring what so ever. I will also need a new head gasket as I removed the head to check the cylinder. I did not check the rings as I only removed the head for piston inspection. I cleaned off the carbon build-up on the top of the piston and inside the head.

Electronics were left intact during the build.

Here is what I plan on getting from the dealer.

New head gasket, intake mani gasket, carb gasket kit as it seems that it needs attention, air filter, and a new plug

I plan on running a dio carb so hopefully that will not affect the motor running correctly as it has a main jet size 75. I shouldn't have a problem swapping over my 85 main jet if needed right?

Here is what I am currently or will be running.

Oko variator with 3 8g and 3 7g weights using stock ramp plate as the aftermarket one didnt seem like it would clear properly already installed.
Wheelman special derestricted and decarbonized exhaust already installed. Just a thought I shouldn't have a problem running the exhaust without an gasket right? I currently do not have one.
Dio carb and carbon reeds with slightly ported intake mani on the way.

Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated!

Brad

Wheelman-111 · Post by **Wheelman-111** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:52 pm

Greetings:

PM me an address and I'll mail you a new exhaust gasket I no longer need. You can start the bike, but don't run without one. At least not far/hard.

You should swap your 85 into the "Dio" carb before installing it. AFAIK the PA04 carbs are the same for the AF 05 as they are for the 16s. (SE and SA, ye who never learn...

) Jets are part number 99101-0**0 for all. Should screw right in. But if you've run an 85 and it was correct, the new carb with a 75 will no doubt be too lean. Not sure why you'd want to introduce a new set of variables by putting a new/used carb anyway.

Kenny_McCormic · Post by **Kenny_McCormic** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:25 pm

New plug!

Comp testers are known to read low on these little engines, grab the flywheel and spin it at the compression stroke, it should bounce back.

Also check bottom end, remove plug and hit electric start, pop should be emitted near bottom dead center.

bradthreee · Post by **bradthreee** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:11 pm

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

PM me an address and I'll mail you a new exhaust gasket I no longer need. You can start the bike, but don't run without one. At least not far/hard.

You should swap your 85 into the "Dio" carb before installing it. AFAIK the PA04 carbs are the same for the AF 05 as they are for the 16s. (SE and SA, ye who never learn... ) Jets are part number 99101-0**0 for all. Should screw right in. But if you've run an 85 and it was correct, the new carb with a 75 will no doubt be too lean. Not sure why you'd want to introduce a new set of variables by putting a new/used carb anyway.

I always thought the dio carb was bigger, thats the reason for me swapping it out. I guess I'll just have to see when I get it. I appreciate the gasket Wheelman you are too cool

The jet had 85 stamped on it and the manual verifies that it is the correct numbered jet for the carb/engine.

ALOW1 · Post by **ALOW1** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:20 pm

bradthreee wrote:

I always thought the dio carb was bigger, thats the reason for me swapping it out.

The Dio carb is bigger, if its off of a real Japan Dio. If its off of a Elite with the Dio engine then its the same size.

Wheelman-111 · Post by **Wheelman-111** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:26 pm

Greetings:

It is very possible the post-2001 DIO AF 18 and Dio ZX AF 28 engines sold overseas used a bigger carb. I don't know that for a fact, and the knowledge pool stateside is shallow, limited to those lucky few who owned those later bikes or imported them.

What everyone on the Forum calls a Dio is not always a Dio. AFAIK the AF 16 engines in the 1994-2001 Elites AKA "Dioids" all use the same PA 04 carbs that were fitted to the 1986 (and possibly '85) Aeros on up throught the SE50 and SA50 Elites through 1993.

If we just called the engines what they are, there'd be less confusion as to what fits what.

Now I have to go remove splinters in my feet from the soapbox.

ALOW1 · Post by **ALOW1** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:50 pm

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

It is very possible the post-2001 DIO AF 18 and Dio ZX AF 28 engines sold overseas used a bigger carb.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-Di ... 500wt_1214

bradthreee · Post by **bradthreee** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:39 pm

After reviewing Sanjuro's post the carb is the Japanese model dio so it should be bigger. Hopefully it will bolt onto the stock intake mani if not then I may possibly need to get the JDM mani as well, if it even fits into the SE50 engine. I guess I'll just have to see

Wheelman-111 · Post by **Wheelman-111** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:47 pm

Greetings:

Without knowing what year of JDM Dio your carb came from, there's no way of knowing. Elites were called Dios in other markets, and the mechanical underpinnings, with market differences to be sure, likely were common to all. In other words, a JDM Dio from, say 1989 would probably have the same carb as on your SE5... - er, I mean AF 05.

Anyone have marketing brochures from overseas?

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