What to do with new (old) scooter before riding?

[Fishman43]

[quote="LunytuneI'm glad you are learning though. I think the eye opener on the difference between 2 stroke and 4 stroke was most helpful to you.[/quote]

Yes it was! All those years (and still at it) of wrenching on every size 4 stroke around didn't teach me much about 2 strokes. I am having fun with these little motors, and will be getting my finger nails dirty for years to come.

I think I am pretty square on what to do, and not to do, for making sure my ride is safe and reliable for now. But questions always arise... Like, I know the engine gets oil injection but is there any benefit to adding some premix oil to the gas?

[Lunytune]

But questions always arise... Like, I know the engine gets oil injection but is there any benefit to adding some premix oil to the gas?

Pros and Cons on that. Some people like that extra assurance and want more than the 1/50 mix, especially on break-in of new top end. Also, some people just don't trust the injection system. BTW, there is a way to increase oil mix on the injection system. Check the repair manual on how to do it.

I do like to add seafoam to the fuel on a regular basis. In fact, I'm trying to establish the habit of adding it directly to my gas cans which I use for the scoots and lawnmowers.

[808BMW]

Be careful doing that, especially when you install an upgraded bore. Seafoam will lean out your mixtures quite a bit (oil ratio and air/fuel). It has it's uses for regular cleaning, but I see no reason to always keep it in your gas.

[Fishman43]

Back to scoot101 for me, Seafoam?

[eliteguy50]

thus starting the scavenging effect of the motor that much earlier

in other words...less low end torque( just moved to a higher rpm range) but higher overall rpms and more hp (what 2 stroke motors are all about). Most 2 strokes rap tight (and get there fast) so the cost/benefit (low end loss/top end gain) works to our favor.

Guy, I have no idea how I got credited with that, but I'll take it anyway. Git it while you can. Actually, 808BMW is the one who made the scavenging reference.

We've changed direction of the intended thread but the originator led us into it, so I guess it's okay. Personally, I think I would just as soon leave the exhaust side alone, except maybe for polishing. If that "expansion chamber" is so designed as to "echo" gases back into the firing chamber, to change any part of the dynamics could be detrimental.

Fishman, you started this thread as a totally green newby and now you've led us into deep 401 Physics. What's with you, man!

Enough of this. The little (not so little anymore) bride and I are going to take advantage of the morning cool and take a short trip with camera and lunch basket in tow. Try out my "new" Asian DIO.

I have no idea either, I just hit the quote button and that is how it turned out. Thanks for correcting though. oh yea, I haven't taken 401 physics, just 301...

[eliteguy50]

Back to scoot101 for me, Seafoam?

a cleaner chemical, not just scooter but any motor, it can be used several ways: gas tank, intake manifold and crank case (four stroke)...

"Sea Foam Motor Treatment has been around since 1942, and was originally developed to remove varnish in carburetors in outboard engines" hense the name, here is the website: http://www.seafoamsales.com/

there are vids on youtube. but use it lightly on scooters like under a bottle cap per tank (recommends 6oz. seafoam per 9 gal. gas) and your aero tank is small.

[Lunytune]

Back to scoot101 for me, Seafoam?

but use it lightly on scooters like under a bottle cap per tank (recommends 6oz. seafoam per 9 gal. gas) and your aero tank is small.

I prefer to premix in my gas can, and use an accurate measuring device. Who knows how much a bottle cap is?

[eliteguy50]

I prefer to premix in my gas can, and use an accurate measuring device. Who knows how much a bottle cap is?

true about the bottle cap but that is the importance of under a bottle cap. I do not recommend using seafoam in the gas tank and premix at the same time unless you run through that gas quickly. the seafoam will break down the lubricating properties of the premixed oil and it will not be as effective.

[Lunytune]

I prefer to premix in my gas can, and use an accurate measuring device. Who knows how much a bottle cap is?

true about the bottle cap but that is the importance of under a bottle cap. I do not recommend using seafoam in the gas tank and premix at the same time unless you run through that gas quickly. the seafoam will break down the lubricating properties of the premixed oil and it will not be as effective.

No, I don't premix oil, just the seafoam. Scoots are a new experience for me, but since varnish is the death of any small engine carb, I figure it wouldn't hurt to establish the habit of putting the seafoam in my gas cans, all except the chainsaw/weedeater can, which must be premix oil. I also have a generator which sits idle much of the year, waiting on emergencies. I dread that. This last storm shut down the town for a week, and almost a month before rural was back running.

[Arnadanoob]

I wouldn't use seafoam on a moped engine. On my dirt bikes it makes some sense since they have powervalves. Castor oils leave varnish behind when it is overheated, and it might cause some problems with the power valve especially if the rider doesn't know how to jet on the mark. Varnish is fine on a moped engine, bad on a powervalve 2 stroke. Anyone who does proper periodic and preventative maintenance on their carb will find it takes less than 15 minutes to keep things running smoothly for months.

If your bike is stock and the injection system works, keep using it. Premixing will involve more of a hassle with little to offer for benefits. The stock injection system varies the oil so that it squirts less at idle to control fouling and smoke, and since the upper rpm range is rather low, it won't inject so much as to cause a lean condition and its delivery is matched with the size of the main jet supplied with the stock carb.

This changes when the motor has been upgraded. Oil injection systems don't inject oil in a linear fashion, which means it injects less at lower rpms and much more at higher rpms. This is dangerous on a modded engine since the higher rpm condition will inject more oil and thus lean out the fuel content. The typical rider with a CHT gauge installed will notice the higher temps and deduce that the higher temps are due to a lack of lubrication. The rider will likely think that adding more oil is the solution. This makes the lean air-fuel condition worse.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Arnadanoob submitted:

The stock injection system varies the oil so that it squirts less at idle to control fouling and smoke, and since the upper rpm range is rather low, it won't inject so much as to cause a lean condition and its delivery is matched with the size of the main jet supplied with the stock carb.

The lean/rich effect of more/less oil had been kicked around a lot over my time on the Forum. I can certainly see the effect of oil ratios when pre-mixing fuel. However I'm not so sure the rules a apply so rigidly when the oil is introduced via an injection system. We find a lot of the oil from the injection system in a pool at the bottom of the crankcase. I'm not certain what proportion is atomized, therefore affecting the incoming mixture. If my theory is correct, a lot of the oil is picked up/splashed around by the reciprocating parts and remains as a coating over the cylinder walls and piston. As such, an injector that squirts, for example, a ratio of one part oil for 40 parts of fuel consumed may not in fact merge into the mixture to effect the ratio to the same degree as when a 40:1 premix is used.

I think this is particularly true when the oil injector output is dribbling into the intake tract far away from the high-velocity area near the carb venturi. My CT manifold's port is about midway down between the carb and reeds, and it looks like a lot of the injected oil just trickles across the reeds and on into the cases. We do want lube on the bearings and cylinder walls. We don't really want oil in the mixture itself. I choose to retain the pump - adding my 60:1 premix for "insurance" -for these reasons. Bigger/higher RPM/hotter engine builders may differ, but so far so good on my high-compression Malossi 65. I guess we'll see if/when/how it blows up.