86 Honda Spree Runs but Won't Charge Battery

[mousewheels]

Yes - that's the fuse in series with all power to the ignition switch. From the ignition switch, turn signals, horn, starter relay and tail/brake light are powered as well as the starter relay coil.

-- fuse rating --
The current rating per the Spree manual is 10 amp. You want a standard "fast blow" fuse rather than slow-blow or time-delay. Voltage rating should be 32vdc or higher. I don't have the case size handy - Measure or take the old with you...

[Bear45-70]

Just to make sure I'm looking at the right and one and only fuze we're talking about. Is the fuze we're talking about the one that's on the right side of the battery holder underneath the seat. The fuze is inside a white plastic oblong enclosure which snaps togther and slides done next to the battery holder. Just want to make sure we're talking about the same fuze.

I may replace it anyways and would like to know the specifications on the fuze. Comments are very welcome.

V/R
John

If the lights work and the electric starter works, the fuse is just fine. Oh, it is a 7 amp fuse but like I say the only way it can prevent charging is for it to be blown and if it is blown you would have a bunch of other issues, which you don't have.

[mousewheels]

Oh, it is a 7 amp fuse but like I say the only way it can prevent charging is for it to be blown

Thanks for the correction Bear - 84-86 is 7 amp, 87 shows 10 amp on the wiring diagram. Those diagrams fool me because I work backwards, and the first one is for sure an '87 shows 10 amp, the second diagram back also shows a fuse at 10 amp.

[Gramps]

Ok...next post in my saga.

I trickle charged the battery all day and found the battery will not hold a charge. So...at least now I know the battery is bad and I need a new one. Never the less, I brought home a battery charger/engine starter from work.
I placed the old, not completely useless battery back in the scooter and the tail light illuminated weakly indicating a small charge in the battery. When I hooked the battery charger/engine starter up and clamped the leads onto the correct battery post the tail light illuminated brightly. The engine starter was set to 2 amp but it also has a 10 amp option but I wasn't sure if that was too much juice for the scooter. When I hit the engine start switch there was a sort of whining like the engine was trying to start but it didn't turn over. Again, I'm not sure if at 2 amps the engine starter is giving the bike enough juice to turn over. Anyways, the starter whirred a few times and then I quite. I didn't want to damage the bike by using too little voltage (if that's possible...which I don't think it is) but I didn't select the 10 amp option because I didn't want to over volt the bike either.

With the charger hooked up all of the lights work perfectly and the starter switch seems to work just fine.

Comments again welcome as I try to narrow the list of items I'm going to need to replace.

V/R
Gramps

[Bear45-70]

Ok...next post in my saga.

I trickle charged the battery all day and found the battery will not hold a charge. So...at least now I know the battery is bad and I need a new one. Never the less, I brought home a battery charger/engine starter from work.
I placed the old, not completely useless battery back in the scooter and the tail light illuminated weakly indicating a small charge in the battery. When I hooked the battery charger/engine starter up and clamped the leads onto the correct battery post the tail light illuminated brightly. The engine starter was set to 2 amp but it also has a 10 amp option but I wasn't sure if that was too much juice for the scooter. When I hit the engine start switch there was a sort of whining like the engine was trying to start but it didn't turn over. Again, I'm not sure if at 2 amps the engine starter is giving the bike enough juice to turn over. Anyways, the starter whirred a few times and then I quite. I didn't want to damage the bike by using too little voltage (if that's possible...which I don't think it is) but I didn't select the 10 amp option because I didn't want to over volt the bike either.

With the charger hooked up all of the lights work perfectly and the starter switch seems to work just fine.

Comments again welcome as I try to narrow the list of items I'm going to need to replace.

V/R
Gramps

Not hold a charge disconnected or connected from the scooter?

[patthesoundguy]

I would take the battery to a place that can test it with one of those neat little electronic testers. Alot of auto supply places do that for free sometimes. ruling out the battery as a problem or not will really help narrow down the trouble shooting. . Just because somthing is new doesnt mean it cant be defectve! I have learned this lesson time and time again in the pro audio world, anything even new things can be messed up. I also like the idea of using the DMM in line to the battery to see if there is any current draw when there is not supposed to be. Also if a battery is toast no amount of charging will fix it. Good luck

[Gramps]

Thanks,

The battery was tested here at work by one of our technicians (I work for a technology company) and she found the battery won't hold a charge. I'm going to replace it again and see what gives. The last time (first time) I put the new battery in the scooter drained the battery in a very short period of time.

Good advice though and I may have wound up with a new "bad" battery in the first place.

One question. Can I use the 10 amp setting on the charger/engine starter to see if it will start the scooter or do I risk damaging the wiring by using that much amperage?

V/R
Gramps

[Gramps]

By the way, the battery WOULD NOT hold a charge while disconncted from the scooter.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Quoth Gramps:

By the way, the battery WOULD NOT hold a charge while disconncted from the scooter.

Then it's faulty. Sulfation from age, incorrect charging or damage can cause an internal short in a battery. Some "Smart" chargers claim to be capable of salvaging milder cases of sulfation. Mostly this means a new battery is in the cards.

I have a spare scooter battery I keep on a shelf. I use it to test compression when I assemble an engine. It keeps its charge for several weeks. Occasionally I hook it up to an HF battery tender for a day or so, and weeks later it'll kick the engine over without issues.

[Gramps]

One thing I missed.

Can I use my battery charger/engine stater on the 10 amp setting to see if the electric starter will start the scooter or is the 10 amp setting too much? My choices are 2 amp, which I've already tried and does not work and the 10 amp setting which I didn't try because I was afraid I'd damage the bike.

Comments and input welcome.

V/R
Gramps

[martynkim]

I would say the worst thing that could happen would be that the fuse would blow.

[Bear45-70]

One thing I missed.

Can I use my battery charger/engine stater on the 10 amp setting to see if the electric starter will start the scooter or is the 10 amp setting too much? My choices are 2 amp, which I've already tried and does not work and the 10 amp setting which I didn't try because I was afraid I'd damage the bike.

Comments and input welcome.

V/R
Gramps

The 10 amp setting will not help when cranking, you will need at least a 50 amp boost to help with cranking.

I have been using these and just leave them on the battery whenever the machine is idle. They are inexpensive, work and I also keep a spare about in case one fails.

http://www.harborfreight.com/automatic- ... 42292.html

[Gramps]

Ok,

The 50 amp advice was excellent. I selected the 55 amp setting on the engine starter, pressed the brake and hit the ignition button. The scooter turned over immediately but didn't start. I tried it several times and it wouldn't start. At my father's suggestion I pulled the spark plug and found the plug pretty fouled. I went to the local motorcycle store and bought a new plug and a new battery.
With the new plug and battery installed the scooter fired right up on the first go. I also tried kickstarting the scooter and it started on the first kick.
When I rev the scooter the headlight get's significantly brighter (which I think is supposed to happen). I've continued to narrow the list of possible problems on the scooter. When I tried the "leak" check by using the ground lead disconnected from the battery the multimeter shows .015. When I lift the multimeter from either the battery or the lead the voltage drops to 0.
I'm reluctant to leave the battery in the scooter for fear there's a current leak which will kill the battery overnight. I think I've narrowed the problem to a short, a regulator or an alternator problem. Again, my skills with the multimeter are limited and need to be better educated on how to use one.

Comments welcome.

V/R
Gramps

[Bear45-70]

Yes. the head light thing is normal.

What scale do you have the meter on? The regulator/rectifier does have a constant, but very small, draw on the battery. It is also why you should disconnect the battery when storing these scooters for any length of time or install a battery maintainer on the battery. The maintainer is my choice.

[Gramps]

Sorry for the gap in the discussion here but I was on travel.

In the spirit of a picture is worth a thousand words I've posted two pictures attached to this post showing the test I ran related to whether the battery has a draw on it when the scooter is off. I'd appreciate it if someone with strong multimeter knowledge looked at both pictures and checked my settings and then how I used the meter on the scooter.
I used the "Leak Inspection" test on page 14-6 of the technical manual to perform the test. As I've stated in previous posts I'm not the strongest in my use of a multimeter so I've posted two photos of the meter attached during the test. Comments and guidance are very welcome from the forum. It looked like there was no draw on the battery with the test performed (if I got the meter set up right and everything else was properly set).

Thanks again and I'm continuing to try to narrow this down. Comments much appreciated.

S/F
Gramps