Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Yea I recently bought the motor so I was hoping that wouldn't be the case. What else can I check?

toad772 wrote:

alemeno wrote:

toad772 wrote:Yes you hold it wide open while doing compression test.

Oh didn't know that. I retested it with WOT and I get a reading of 125-130psi.

Then it is pretty safe to say it isn't your compression.

Agreed, Change your spark plug next and check your air filter for dirty or damaged.

I'll go ahead and change the spark plug, but both are brand new and stock.

Ok so I replaced the spark plug and made sure the airbox and everything was nice and tight. It still runs lean no matter which way I adjust it. What can I try now?

alemeno wrote:Ok so I replaced the spark plug and made sure the airbox and everything was nice and tight. It still runs lean no matter which way I adjust it. What can I try now?

How do you know it is running lean?

Bear45-70 wrote:

alemeno wrote:Ok so I replaced the spark plug and made sure the airbox and everything was nice and tight. It still runs lean no matter which way I adjust it. What can I try now?

How do you know it is running lean?

I did a plug chop and it was fairly white. I adjusted it more and took it around the block a few times to do another plug chop and it started to soft seize again.

Greetings:

Quoth Alemeno:

I did a plug chop and it was fairly white. I adjusted it more (Emphasis added)and took it around the block a few times...

You may be correct in surmising that it's running too lean, but you should know that there is no "adjusting" the main jet circuit. You can spin that little brass screw all you want, but the contribution of the idle circuit to the mixture at full or even half throttle is trivial.

We "Adjust" the Main circuit by changing main jets. There is no other "adjustment", none. If the jet was OK before, it should be OK now unless something has changed in the engine.

However one can't effectively adjust any of it in the presence of a vacuum leak, which I suspect you have. These can be intermittent, and vary with engine temp and/or vibration at speed. Likely sources of such leaks begin at the airbox/carb connection and work back through and including the exhaust gasket, base gasket and crank seals. Such a leak must be found and corrected. You could try spraying around these suspect areas with anything flammable and listen for a change in the idle speed. However the absence of this does not guarantee it doesn't leak at speed, which is much harder to test for obvious reasons.

The other possibility is an emulsion tube or even main jet clogged with Goo, preventing full fuel flow from matching the intake air. I don't like this theory as well, but do be sure you extract the emulsion tube from under the main jet and inspect.

Good luck!

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

Quoth Alemeno:

I did a plug chop and it was fairly white. I adjusted it more (Emphasis added)and took it around the block a few times...

You may be correct in surmising that it's running too lean, but you should know that there is no "adjusting" the main jet circuit. You can spin that little brass screw all you want, but the contribution of the idle circuit to the mixture at full or even half throttle is trivial.

We "Adjust" the Main circuit by changing main jets. There is no other "adjustment", none. If the jet was OK before, it should be OK now unless something has changed in the engine.

However one can't effectively adjust any of it in the presence of a vacuum leak, which I suspect you have. These can be intermittent, and vary with engine temp and/or vibration at speed. Likely sources of such leaks begin at the airbox/carb connection and work back through and including the exhaust gasket, base gasket and crank seals. Such a leak must be found and corrected. You could try spraying around these suspect areas with anything flammable and listen for a change in the idle speed. However the absence of this does not guarantee it doesn't leak at speed, which is much harder to test for obvious reasons.

The other possibility is an emulsion tube or even main jet clogged with Goo, preventing full fuel flow from matching the intake air. I don't like this theory as well, but do be sure you extract the emulsion tube from under the main jet and inspect.

Good luck!

Ok so today I checked for vacuum leaks with my mechanically inclined friend and there aren't any leaks. I made sure to clean the emulsion tube and main jet when I cleaned my carb (looked at picture guide on wikispreedia). What else could it be?

Did you check the float level when the carb was apart? While checking for leaks, did you check the air box and tube? Oh and what method did you use to check for vacuum leaks? Please discribe how you did your plug chop?

Bear45-70 wrote:Did you check the float level when the carb was apart? While checking for leaks, did you check the air box and tube? Oh and what method did you use to check for vacuum leaks? Please discribe how you did your plug chop?

The float seemed to be the right level. I did check the air box and tube, and I made sure the tube was nice and secure on the carb. I took starter fluid and sprayed around the carb and air box area while the motor was idling, and I also spayed carb cleaner after to see if either would make a difference in the idle and neither did. When I do a plug chop I put a new plug in, I warm the bike up, and I take it around the block and get it up to full speed and when I'm WOT at full speed I hit the kill switch and pull over and take the plug out and check the color.

i belive what bear is talking about is when u take ur throttle cable off the carb and take the sliver piece off on the cable side, where is the little disk at..... plus just cause its tight doesnt always mean hoses are not crack or gaskets blown out just something to think about

fastplastic wrote:i belive what bear is talking about is when u take ur throttle cable off the carb and take the sliver piece off on the cable side, where is the little disk at..... plus just cause its tight doesnt always mean hoses are not crack or gaskets blown out just something to think about

Nope, I'm talkin' about the little tab in the slide bore that aligns the slide with the venturi.

alemeno wrote:

Bear45-70 wrote:Did you check the float level when the carb was apart? While checking for leaks, did you check the air box and tube? Oh and what method did you use to check for vacuum leaks? Please discribe how you did your plug chop?

The float seemed to be the right level. I did check the air box and tube, and I made sure the tube was nice and secure on the carb. I took starter fluid and sprayed around the carb and air box area while the motor was idling, and I also spayed carb cleaner after to see if either would make a difference in the idle and neither did. When I do a plug chop I put a new plug in, I warm the bike up, and I take it around the block and get it up to full speed and when I'm WOT at full speed I hit the kill switch and pull over and take the plug out and check the color.

If it wasn't lean before and is now, it has to be an air (vacuum) leak or not enough fuel getting to the venturi. Have you checked for leaking seals at the crank shaft ends and the cylinder base gasket. When you say "seemed to be the right level" in regards to the float, does that mean you did not measure it?

Another question, when the motor is cold does it run better than when it is warm?

Bear45-70 wrote:

alemeno wrote:

Bear45-70 wrote:Did you check the float level when the carb was apart? While checking for leaks, did you check the air box and tube? Oh and what method did you use to check for vacuum leaks? Please discribe how you did your plug chop?

The float seemed to be the right level. I did check the air box and tube, and I made sure the tube was nice and secure on the carb. I took starter fluid and sprayed around the carb and air box area while the motor was idling, and I also spayed carb cleaner after to see if either would make a difference in the idle and neither did. When I do a plug chop I put a new plug in, I warm the bike up, and I take it around the block and get it up to full speed and when I'm WOT at full speed I hit the kill switch and pull over and take the plug out and check the color.

If it wasn't lean before and is now, it has to be an air (vacuum) leak or not enough fuel getting to the venturi. Have you checked for leaking seals at the crank shaft ends and the cylinder base gasket. When you say "seemed to be the right level" in regards to the float, does that mean you did not measure it?

Another question, when the motor is cold does it run better than when it is warm?

I've cleaned that carb every way I can think and have checked all the little jets and holes, even the emulsion tube, and they are all clear (venturi?). I just ran it for 10 minutes and checked to see if either of those were leaking and they aren't. I didn't measure the float because I am not sure how to measure the float. Seems to be idling less sporadically now than it was before, and it seems like it runs a little better when warmed up completely.

read the first part of what bear said about the vaccum leaks or just up jett it and pretend there are no vac leaks, but best bet for what is wrong is vaccum leak check everything over not just to see if tight but look for cracks, like bear said, even a bad head gasket can make a huge case leak and make it run poopie....