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Re: Spree has spark, compression, and gas. Still won't start
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:08 pm
by GaryOak
wwolvert wrote:A plugged exhaust pipe maybe? But I think your bottom end isn't sealing
What do you mean by the bottom end isn't sealing?
When I did my hand test for compression there was air coming out the exhaust pipe (not sure if it was enough compression though).
Re: Spree has spark, compression, and gas. Still won't start
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:09 pm
by GaryOak
Also just opened up the kickstarter cover and looked around in there. Couldn't find any signs of oil leakage.
And there is definitely gas in the carb - it's draining in when I prime it by sucking the vacuum tube and then stopping at a point (I assume when the float is up and plugging its hole). Could it be getting into the carb but still not going to the proper place?
Re: Spree has spark, compression, and gas. Still won't start
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:15 pm
by wwolvert
I meant crank seals that are not sealing. With your variator off can you move the crank shaft up and down at all there should zero play in the crank bearings
Re: Spree has spark, compression, and gas. Still won't start
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:05 am
by MrJumps
Take your plug out and look for metal flakes on it. I have a feeling if air is in the oil line the last time it ran it ran out of oil and was baked. May be smart to pull the vari side off and the flywheel first and if both seals are good then pull the head and examines the bore.
Re: Spree has spark, compression, and gas. Still won't start
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:26 am
by patthesoundguy
Also could have a sheared flywheel key. Id almost pull the air hose off of the carb and try choking the carb there right on the carb with your hand. See if your hand gets wet with fuel. That will tell you its getting fuel to the right place. Now is the battery fully charged? So no remeber right or is this the spree that had a low battery. If the battery is not fully charged you may not get the motor to start. The motor can seem to be spinning fast enough to get the motor to start but it might not be quite fast enough for to catch. How do I know this... been there done that lol. I have spent many hours over the years trying to figure out wwhy my spree wouldn't quite start and then charging the battery or jumping it and having it start right away. Might be as simple as that.
Re: Spree has spark, compression, and gas. Still won't start
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:30 am
by tazland001
You need to do use a compression tester. Compression range is 90-120. If the bike sat then there is a good chance oil leaked into the crank case. Oil in the crankcase can bring up the compression and once the bike starts it will run then die and you won't be able to start it again. So I would get a compression tester for a more accurate reading.
When testing it goes
compression,spark, fuel
Taz
Re: Spree has spark, compression, and gas. Still won't start
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:56 am
by vintagegarage
Before you take anything more apart, get a 2 foot piece of clear 3/16 or 1/8 plastic hose, stick one end of the hose on the nipple on the intake manifold that supplies the vacuum to open the fuel valve, and put the other end of the clear hose in a cup of gasoline. Turn the engine over and see if the engine has enough vacuum at the nipple to suck any gasoline into the clear hose. If it doesn't, your left crank seal has blown out. If it does suck gasoline out of the cup, then your problem is something else.
Re: Spree has spark, compression, and gas. Still won't start
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:23 pm
by GaryOak
Thanks for all the advice guys! I'll check out all this stuff when I get off work today.
More info - I took a very brief look at the bike this morning and oil had leaked onto the ground near the back wheel (I'm thinking crank case) - would this mean the seal is broken? How do I go about fixing/replacing?
Re: Spree has spark, compression, and gas. Still won't start
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:38 pm
by GaryOak
Also I'm borrowing a compression tester from O'Reilly tonight so I'll figure out if I'm actually getting enough compression or not.
Re: Spree has spark, compression, and gas. Still won't start
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:49 pm
by GaryOak
patthesoundguy wrote:Also could have a sheared flywheel key. Id almost pull the air hose off of the carb and try choking the carb there right on the carb with your hand. See if your hand gets wet with fuel. That will tell you its getting fuel to the right place. Now is the battery fully charged? So no remeber right or is this the spree that had a low battery. If the battery is not fully charged you may not get the motor to start. The motor can seem to be spinning fast enough to get the motor to start but it might not be quite fast enough for to catch. How do I know this... been there done that lol. I have spent many hours over the years trying to figure out wwhy my spree wouldn't quite start and then charging the battery or jumping it and having it start right away. Might be as simple as that.
I've tried hand choking the carb and my hand did get wet with gas.
For the battery - I'm having some wiring issues so right now I'm just using the kickstarter to crank it.
Re: Spree has spark, compression, and gas. Still won't start
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:03 pm
by patthesoundguy
Yeah compression will tell the story I'm betting.
Re: Spree has spark, compression, and gas. Still won't start
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:59 pm
by GaryOak
patthesoundguy wrote:Yeah compression will tell the story I'm betting.
Alright I'll test compression this evening and keep you guys updated!
Re: Spree has spark, compression, and gas. Still won't start
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:42 pm
by eclark5483
Did you bleed the oil line after refilling? If the pump was ran empty, you will more then likely need to re-bleed the lines, covered under section 2-3 of the Spree service manual. Also inspect the oil strainer and clean it out (section 3-7). If it ran dry, then sat, it's possibly gunked up now. If you're using the pump, treat your new friend right and clean that out.
Re: Spree has spark, compression, and gas. Still won't start
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:01 pm
by MrJumps
eclark5483 wrote:Did you bleed the oil line after refilling? If the pump was ran empty, you will more then likely need to re-bleed the lines, covered under section 2-3 of the Spree service manual. Also inspect the oil strainer and clean it out (section 3-7). If it ran dry, then sat, it's possibly gunked up now. If you're using the pump, treat your new friend right and clean that out.
MrJumps wrote:Take your plug out and look for metal flakes on it. I have a feeling if air is in the oil line the last time it ran it ran out of oil and was baked. May be smart to pull the vari side off and the flywheel first and if both seals are good then pull the head and examines the bore.
Re: Spree has spark, compression, and gas. Still won't start
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:09 pm
by Meatball
[quote="GaryOak"] oil had leaked onto the ground near the back wheel quote]
So many issues, where to start? Wiring issues? What kind? You say youre getting spark but wiring issues include starter relay, CDI, Stator, bystarter, etc, etc, which could be a problem. Leaking oil could be a few things also, crankcase, transmission gasket or seals or even an oil pump/line connection that leaks and makes oil travel along the case and decide to drip when it reaches the back wheel. Ive had an oil leak in the front before but doesn't drip until it travels 3ft away and drips. Need to clean the gunk off of everything and see where fresh stuff is coming from.
I am leaning towards something fuel/carb related here. Need to triple check the entire fuel path from gas tank to reeds. This includes, fuel filter, petcock, fuel lines, COMPLETELY clean carb that has been totally disassembled, vacuum port on intake, stuck/frozen reeds, etc etc.
Not questioning your ability but Ive seen it so many times where people do a "quick job" on cleaning their carb. They don't remove float or valve, They don't remove main jet or emusion tube. They don't do the "FLASHLIGHT TEST" to ensure the pilot circuit is clear. Those holes are so tiny that a grain of sand can be the difference between run and not run. Again, Im not saying youre one of these people but even someone as OCD as myself took me 2 times to get it clean.
Ive also seen people that have the spacer between the carb and intake installed upside down. That will also cause it to be restricted enough to not fire.