1986 Spree NQ50 No Power, Carbs Scrubbed Clean
Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:51 pm
I inherited two 86 Sprees from my Dad. They each have about 850 miles on them, and have been stored in doors or inside custom canvas bags from when they were new. In fact they still look like they are new. They probably have been run less than 5 miles in the last 5 years. I put in new batteries and fuel and away they went sort of. They start and idle fine. Just purr along like Hondas generally do. Give them some throttle and they sputter. One ran ok (the better one) and the other acts like you turned off the fuel when you open the throttle.
I replaced the vacuum petcock on "the worse one", cleaned the fuel filter and put in new fuel. No joy. I cleaned the carb. No joy. New spark plug, same. Verified spark - OK. Ran about the same with the exhaust removed.
I started swapping parts like carbs, ignition coil, spark plugs, exhaust. One ran ok, the other dies on throttle. Somewhere along the process of swapping parts both scoots started running poorly when advancing the throttle.
I took them both to a "professional". He cleaned both carbs a second time, replaced the spark plugs, "cleared the exhausts", turned some mixture screws, lightened my wallet and declared them better.
Got them home... still two pooches.
I spent many hours reading hondaspree.net looking for the magic answer. Many of the posts start off good, but it seems like the final result is always missing. I guess once someone gets their scoot running, they're too busy to post what finally fixed the problem.
One of the posts reminded me that my Dad had placed some washers under the air box cover screw of "the better one". I had taken those out when I cleaned the carbs the first time. I took the air box cover off and that scoot started running better again!!!! I ended up drilling holes in the cover until it runs well with the cover installed. I've probably got about 20, 3/16" holes in the cover, but at least one scoot runs well. 25 mph on the level with 250 lb load.
I went back to the spree with what seems to have a fuel cut out problem. In the first 10 seconds of reving it up it seems to start to come on with some power, then it gets wimpy. If you hold the throttle more than 50% open for more than 10 seconds it stalls. I got a wash bottle and put in some gasoline (think chemistry lab). Took off the air cleaner cover and removed the filter, started it up on the kick stand and advanced the throttle. As it started to die I squirted some fuel in the intake. With a little practice I can make the scoot run like a demon, if I put just the right amount of fuel in the intake.
This is the point where I cleaned the carb a third time, making sure to clean out the pilot hole behind the main jet emulsion tube. This didn't help.
As I thought this over it occured to me that maybe it was the float bowl that wasn't staying full due to low fuel flow from the tank. I disconnected the fuel line from the petcock and covered the petcock outlet. I took my wash bottle of gasoline and jammed its output nozzle into the fuel line to the carb. I put the wash bottle between my feet on the running board and maintained fuel pressure by squeezing the bottle while I rode. It ran pretty good!! (I played around with the air box cover and I think I'm going to need a little extra breating here once I figure out the fuel.) I don't think I want to maintain fuel pressure by squeezing a bottle between my feet all the time so now I need to figure out where the fuel flow restriction is.
I took out the petcock, this is the new one, and cleaned it and the fuel filter up. No joy. I took the fuel filter and cut off the filter portion turning it into a 1/2" tube. No joy.
I guess I'm finally getting to my questions... Does the petcock have any kind of restriction to fuel flow once the valve is open. Last time I drained the tank it seemed to flow ok. The fuel and vacuum lines are new. The other thing is the fuel inlet at the carb and the inlet needle and float. I know I sprayed lots of carb cleaner through this area (three times) and I've had the inlet needle out and it looks fine. The float is ok. So what is it about the fuel inlet that makes it work ok with a couple PSI of fuel pressure, but not ok with a few inches of fuel head (gravity feed)? Sticky needle??
I'm running out of ideas. Does any one have any other suggestions? The kids are getting tired of sharing a single spree. By the way I used to work for a carburetor manufacturer (Walbro).
Dad of the Spree Twins.
I replaced the vacuum petcock on "the worse one", cleaned the fuel filter and put in new fuel. No joy. I cleaned the carb. No joy. New spark plug, same. Verified spark - OK. Ran about the same with the exhaust removed.
I started swapping parts like carbs, ignition coil, spark plugs, exhaust. One ran ok, the other dies on throttle. Somewhere along the process of swapping parts both scoots started running poorly when advancing the throttle.
I took them both to a "professional". He cleaned both carbs a second time, replaced the spark plugs, "cleared the exhausts", turned some mixture screws, lightened my wallet and declared them better.
Got them home... still two pooches.
I spent many hours reading hondaspree.net looking for the magic answer. Many of the posts start off good, but it seems like the final result is always missing. I guess once someone gets their scoot running, they're too busy to post what finally fixed the problem.
One of the posts reminded me that my Dad had placed some washers under the air box cover screw of "the better one". I had taken those out when I cleaned the carbs the first time. I took the air box cover off and that scoot started running better again!!!! I ended up drilling holes in the cover until it runs well with the cover installed. I've probably got about 20, 3/16" holes in the cover, but at least one scoot runs well. 25 mph on the level with 250 lb load.
I went back to the spree with what seems to have a fuel cut out problem. In the first 10 seconds of reving it up it seems to start to come on with some power, then it gets wimpy. If you hold the throttle more than 50% open for more than 10 seconds it stalls. I got a wash bottle and put in some gasoline (think chemistry lab). Took off the air cleaner cover and removed the filter, started it up on the kick stand and advanced the throttle. As it started to die I squirted some fuel in the intake. With a little practice I can make the scoot run like a demon, if I put just the right amount of fuel in the intake.
This is the point where I cleaned the carb a third time, making sure to clean out the pilot hole behind the main jet emulsion tube. This didn't help.
As I thought this over it occured to me that maybe it was the float bowl that wasn't staying full due to low fuel flow from the tank. I disconnected the fuel line from the petcock and covered the petcock outlet. I took my wash bottle of gasoline and jammed its output nozzle into the fuel line to the carb. I put the wash bottle between my feet on the running board and maintained fuel pressure by squeezing the bottle while I rode. It ran pretty good!! (I played around with the air box cover and I think I'm going to need a little extra breating here once I figure out the fuel.) I don't think I want to maintain fuel pressure by squeezing a bottle between my feet all the time so now I need to figure out where the fuel flow restriction is.
I took out the petcock, this is the new one, and cleaned it and the fuel filter up. No joy. I took the fuel filter and cut off the filter portion turning it into a 1/2" tube. No joy.
I guess I'm finally getting to my questions... Does the petcock have any kind of restriction to fuel flow once the valve is open. Last time I drained the tank it seemed to flow ok. The fuel and vacuum lines are new. The other thing is the fuel inlet at the carb and the inlet needle and float. I know I sprayed lots of carb cleaner through this area (three times) and I've had the inlet needle out and it looks fine. The float is ok. So what is it about the fuel inlet that makes it work ok with a couple PSI of fuel pressure, but not ok with a few inches of fuel head (gravity feed)? Sticky needle??
I'm running out of ideas. Does any one have any other suggestions? The kids are getting tired of sharing a single spree. By the way I used to work for a carburetor manufacturer (Walbro).
Dad of the Spree Twins.