Elite 50 will not start

[Lewis]

Have a 1989 Elite for my son. He was riding it when stopped, like it ran out of gas. Checked and getting gas, fire to the plug, but the plug is dry. I notice that there is a electrical punger, could that be the prolbem? If possible, how should I check it.

Lewis in Tennessee

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

And welcome, Lewis.

Uhhh, Whut's a "Punger"?

If you mean the bystarter, a black carb appendage sired by Beelzebub and suckled by Medusa, there lies not your issue. Don't mess with it for now.

First, we have to confirm symptoms. "Just riding around, suddenly stopped...". Are you sure about that part? Hard to believe, but I was a teenager once. Whenever I broke something monkeying around with it, I was disinclined to fully disclose the details to my own Dad. I suspect I'm not alone in this.

Sudden scooter silence can be induced deliberately by pressing the killswitch. A holed piston or broken crankshaft can do the same. In between there are dozens of possibilities, some benign, some requiring more work/money to rectify. Check to see if a chunk of foam is missing from the air filter element first. If so, you'll find it in the reed valve assembly. Don't try to put it back...

[Lewis]

Electrical Plunger, (DC solenoid with a needle valve). Checked and no foam in the reed valve assembly. Also, check the Piston does not have a hole inthe top of it. And is going up and down. Also, top of the pistion is dry! So, I'm not getting fuel.

Also, after reading couple of other posting, I have gas flow all the time. As I'm not use to troubshing this type of motor, what is the results if the petcook does not turn off the flow of gas without vacuum?

Lewis

[hondaman]

Get a new petcock or fix the one you have. It is stuck open which allows gas flow all the time without vacuum applied. It is flooding out.

[Wheelman-111]

It is stuck open which allows gas flow all the time without vacuum applied. It is flooding out.

Well a non-functional petcock can be a problem, but I ran Flash I with a straight-flow tank fitting for a while. As long as your float needle is functional, open fuel line works just fine.

He was riding it when stopped, like it ran out of gas. Checked and getting gas, fire to the plug, but the plug is dry.

Anyway from the long list of possible malfunctions, a fuel system issue isn't the best fit for a sudden loss of internal combustion. You may have identified the problem, but then again maybe not.

1. Put in a new plug and just try to start before you;
2. Evaluate the rest of the intake system by inspection. Maybe the airbox inhaled a chipmunk, still stuck in the intake tube...
3. Evaluate the carb by disassembly - see instructional thread(s) - a Float can get brittle and crack, so it no longer uh... Floats! Thus it can no no longer open fuel flow to fill the bowl.

Good luck!

[Lunytune]

BACK TO BASICS: You've torn down a lot before running all the tests you need to clear. I'm with Wheelz, on the boy just riding. I've raised two boys who didn't have scooters, but they sure could tear up lawnmowers and never admit to running into that stump or big rock to explain bent blade or shaft. So forget the original report, but don't worry about the boy lying. He won't change his story until he's 25 or so and sure you can't whip him.

Here's the basics and steps.
1. Ignition. Gotta have fire to the plug and through the plug. You've checked that.
2. Compression. You could save yourself a lot of problem tearing down the top end by running compression test first. You need 100 psi to run decent. Generally, if compression is good, your reed valve is probably good.
3. Fuel. That Plunger is the bystarter. It acts as a choke during starting. It can make it hard starting, but won't generally make it die in midstream.

The petcock is a stopgap devise to eliminate draining off while scooter is parked. An open petcock will not stop it from running. The float valve is the final controller.

More information is needed, but I'm suspicious of a piece of trash in the carburetor. What's the history of this scooter? Constant riding before breakdown, or fresh out of storage?

[Lewis]

Ok, this little scooter is kicking my *! I checked every item that I know and that I find on this web site that could be a possilbe problem. I have compression, checked the reed valve on the intake. Disassambled the car, poilish the needle seat, check the float for holes. Made sure that the float was cutting off, even check the new Petcock, it works find. New spark pug and it has fire. Vacum at the carb when the motor is turnning over, but still will not hit a lick! Help! any suggestions as to what could be the problem.

Lewis

[eliteguy50]

I have compression

How much compression in psi? under 80psi these get finicky to start. if you pour a little gas in the cylinder then put the plug back in quick, will it fire?

[Lewis]

No, I tried that too!

[Lunytune]

I have compression

At the risk of sounding redundant, "How MUCH compression?" That question will continue to pop up until we hear a figure. Do you have a compression gauge? Most parts houses will loan you a gauge... part of the perks to draw you back in for your business.