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Keeping Spree Elite Aero 50cc and Gyro Alive!
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:14 am 
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Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Black 87 Spree - sat in shed for 15 years - roughly 8,600 miles. Cleaned: Carb (3x), gas tank. New: Fuel lines, petcock, bystarter, spark plug, bulbs, belt, air filter. Still Missing: Battery, air filter cover, 2 main body panels

Okay, there's the run-down. Now the problems:

1. Top Speed - I weigh 120 pounds soaking wet, but my current top speed is 20mph. It runs fine until it hits 20 and then runs very rough. By rough, I mean it does not hold 20mph steadily - it's very * at top speed. It also backfires frequently (not a 'bang' so much as a 'tsssss' coming out of the tail pipe). I know these things are not speed demons, but I've been spending a of time on this forum and I should be pushing at least 30...and considering my weight, I'm hoping 35.

I've been told the air filter cover makes a difference, but would not having one hurt me THAT bad on top speed and performance? Am I looking at an exhaust issue? (I've read about the drain-o trick, think i could handle that no problem).

2. No Lights - Except headlight that is. I realize I have no battery, but from what I've read, I should be okay as long as I'm throttling.

Where can I find the fuse on the 87 so I can check it? Front body panel by the fork? What about the relay? I'm extremely limited in the tools and testing department - I have a basic tool set w/ sockets, wrenches, etc and I'm learning as I go.

Any help and ideas are greatly appreciated. I'd like to be able to get this thing running so I can flip the odometer back to 0000, and hopefully put another 8,600 on it :)

OH - almost forgot - the VERY FIRST time I ride it each day (after a 5-10 minute warm-up), it WILL reach 25-28 mph and then IMMEDIATELY goes back down to 15-20mph...it's always the first time I throttle it each day.

Thanks in advance,

Kevin

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87 Spree, 33mph


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:28 am 
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air box will make a big difference its a must have with a oiled filter in side, check your belt and clutch could be worn(mine * after 20 also). worn belt and/or clutch will cause slipping and maybe intermediate high revs. your fuse should be on the right side(as you sit on it) behind the panel. loose exhaust could cause a problem also check that it hasnt rattled loose. and definetly drain-o that thing with 8600 miles on it bet theres some carbon build up. hope this helps and somebody will either back me or correct me. have fun!!

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1986 honda spree(silver fox)
BBK
85 head
SB50 intake
SB50 reeds
taz gears
2.75X10 tires
2000 honda elite S
prodigy vari
2k grabber clutch springs
9:1 gears
jdm tail lite
1982 suzuki FA50


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:53 pm 
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Okay, I guess I'll have to break down and buy the filter cover...I'm really not a cheap person, but $15 for a little piece of plastic seems kinda ridic to me..oh well...I'm pretty sure the belt is okay since it's brand new, but I'll double check that it's not slipping. I have no clue about the clutch but I'm sure I can figure it out after I read that part of the service manual (any tips appreciated).

I can't seem to find the fuse though...am I looking for a plain old cylinder type fuse (glass w/ metal ends), or is it one of those boxes with a plug on the right side above the engine? I found 2 boxes, both of which clip into a wiring harness - one of them is shot to *. It's got a rubber cover and is metal - it's rusty and sounds like there's crap in there when I shake it. Is this a fuse or relay? The other box is black plastic - seems okay but I have no way to verify. What is this one?

Thanks again, this forum ROCKS! :rock:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:40 pm 
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the boxes are the starter relay and the CDI. Your scooter either has a fouled plug or is plugged with carcon. I am 99% it is carbon with that many miles. Easy fix. Take off your muffler. Put you piston in the down position. Get a small screw drive and gently slide it into the exhaust manifold, just to see how clogged it is. Do not be forceful because this can scratch or damage the cylinder. If it is clogged get a semi long bolt(8mm) on crunch all the carbon up and out. After you do that start the scooter with muffler off so the carbon blows out onto the ground. It will not damage the piston. I have done this a million times hypothetically. Be somewhat gentle. Or you can just take the cylinder off and clean the exaust manifold. The fisrt way is easier. Now you muffler sounds clogged also. This actually might be the only problem but doubtful with so many miles. Thats why you hear the hiss. You muffler is defintlly clogged. To test the muffler stick up to you mouth like playing a tuba and blow on the exhaust where the muffler ring is. If your muffler is clogged you will know right away. If it is not clogged it will take no effort or pressure to blow through the muffler. That is an easy fix also. Make sure to replace the plug because that could be where the backfiring is coming from. But the slow speed is due to carbon. :coolcruise:
Taz


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:10 pm 
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thanks taz - i've got a brand new plug, but i'll double check to be sure - muffler and manifold fixes sound easy enough, but how do i get the piston in the down position? by hand once the muffler is off? sorry for the noobishness :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:58 pm 
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Take out your plug. Take a pencil. Stick it in the spark plg hole. Turn your magnito(the part with the plastic fan on it), and you will see the pencil move up and down. When the pencil is in the farthest down position your piston is in down position. So you can then clean the carbon out of the exhaust manifold part of the cylinder. Then test the muffler for cloggs. Easy money.

taz


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:55 pm 
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u da man, thx! :worship:

regarding my electrical issue, i've checked the fuse and it's fine...so does that mean my cdi is bad?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:09 pm 
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okay, i checked the muffler and no clogs...i can easily blow through it...i also checked the exhaust manifold and cleaned a LITTLE crap out of it, but it was not clogged...i even drove it up and down the street without the muffler and it ran the same as it does when the muffler is on...spark plug is okay...belt is brand new and does not appear to be slipping...

odinxxix had suggested i check the clutch...i looked up a pic of one on eBay and it looks the same as the starter pinion...am i correct?

anyone have further suggestions?

thx again...i feel like i'm close but i'm starting to get really frustrated with this thing :x ...it also runs REALLY crappy in cold weather...i've got a lot of time and money invested at this point so i'm pretty much 'pot committed' (a little poker innuendo)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:47 pm 
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okay, problem solved...i hopped on it today and i'm going 33mph on flat road! :woot:

thx for all the help and advice guys...i should be able to figure out my electrical issue...i've read several posts and i'm pretty sure it's my cdi...i'll post pics as soon as i get my body parts...thx again! :coolcruise:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:04 pm 
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So what was it? The cdi or is the cdi still another problem?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:43 pm 
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am i wrong? or do you need the cdi for it to run? yes pleas tell us what was wrong

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1986 honda spree(silver fox)
BBK
85 head
SB50 intake
SB50 reeds
taz gears
2.75X10 tires
2000 honda elite S
prodigy vari
2k grabber clutch springs
9:1 gears
jdm tail lite
1982 suzuki FA50


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:44 am 
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Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Sure thing...the advice about checking the clutch and exhaust were definitely helpful...but ultimately i think not having the air filter cover was the culprit...and i actually fixed it accidentally. While taking pieces off to check the clutch and exhaust, I inadvertently knocked loose the plastic connecting hose between the carb and air box...not very much, but enough so that there's a tiny space between the carb and plastic hose. I then drove 5 miles to work and 5 miles back, and i consistently ran 33mph :coolcruise:

Of course I do plan on getting the air filter cover, I'm just super broke so I won't have the money for it til this thurs. I'm def not saying this would be advisable in all cases since I have no clue about any potential consequences, but hey, it's a good temp fix and it worked great for me! :thumbwink:

I still don't have working tail lights, blinkers, or gas gauge...since my fuse is fine I THINK it's the cdi but that's based on my limited knowledge and reading other posts. Hopefully this helps out someone else since I've received a lot of help from you guys.

PEACE!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:47 am 
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I confirmed the correct answer when I reconnected the hose and it started running crappy again (15-20 mph and very *) then loosened it again (33mph, smooth as a baby's butt!)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:17 am 
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Here are a few pics:

Image

Image

Image

Image

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:06 am 
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Welcome to Scootersberg- a quaint villa on the outskirts of Tuewhelia.
the CDI typically either works of not- so if it is working then i doubt it is"bad"
a battery and then electrics will tie the scooters system together.
that'd be your next move.

now then... that air intake issue your experiencing-
don't i see an airbox lid?
are you certain that the 2 small intake holes in the top of the airbox lid aren't clogged with dirt dobber glop?
what sort of air filter material and oiling for it are you using?

another anomaly of scooter performance is the airscrew and the close relationship it has with regard to how the whole airbox/intake section is set up.set the air screw at 1 1/2 turns out from full in as a base line.

reconnect the carb intake boot. either replace the filter with a lightly oiled Uni piece from a sheet of replacement foam material or a fo real honda filter.
put the lid back on and assuming the two intake holes are clear it will run properly....i think :imo:
don't be a dirt sucker...

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