Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Hi Guys,

I have been playing with my GFs' nifty 50 (yay).
It has some issues that are quite replexing.
Firstly it has a flat battery so I have been using jumper leads from another battery to start it. When it is cold it starts and runs fine..


After 20 min it stalls and no attempt to start it was succesful. These attempts involved using a car battery linked up and manually pressing the starter relay switch (yes taking apart the relay and manually depressing it) this worked when cold but when hot nothing happened. Using this technique I am isolating the first 6 potential issues on the list given in the manual below so that measn there is an intermittend heat problem related to the final two points. Any one has ideas where to check first or had experience with where to look???? I am very new to these things (was my first arvo yesterday - by the way these things are hilariously funny ).


Following these guidelines;
*Starter wont't run
-Fuse burned out
-Weak battery
-Faulty ignition switch
-Faulty starter switch
-Faulty front or rear stop switch
-Faulty starter relay
-Poorly connected, broken or shorted wire
-Faulty starter motor

The other problem is that the battery doesn't seem to be charging and going flat. Are there any check for this or point sot look out for. When it is running the lights are very dim at idle and light up when you rev it.

Any help pointers greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Andy in Australia

Greetings:

Old batteries do go bad. Replace.

Headlight remains dim at idle. Normal behaviour.

Relay sounds iffy. Don't jump from car.

Your carby's idle circuit is likely dirty. Won't run without open choke circuit.

Hmm, thanks for the reply.

I think the idle is fine because the bike runs well, just randomly stalls and looses all signs of life after a while of being at op temperature.
I checked the voltage across the battery when it is going and it is making around 12.5 to 13v so that is good.. I think?
Then I had the fortune of touching the fuel tap when it was on and I got a shock. The whole thing was earthing through me. I felt the pulses of the coil. This makes me think the primary problem is a short somewhere. This makes sense as to why the battery is flat and why there are intermittent problems with it stalling.

My hypothesis? Perhaps a wire is earthing somewhere then heats up and resistance gets too much and then it stalls, the melted or hot wire then prevents it from showing signs of life for a while?

I am 80% sure this is the issue. Does any one have any advice for finding the short, where I might look first and what to look for?

Advice greatly appreciated. Or let me know if you think I am barking up the wrong tree.

Cheers
Andy

Greetings:

The scooter will run without a battery, by the shock from the fuel tap changes everything. Mousewheels is our resident electxpert. Lots of these components malfunction first when hot before giving out altogether.

Thanks, this is helpful information

So this means that there could be a component malfunctioning somewhere (causing a short to the frame) that then completely dies when it is hot causing the bike to stall and not allow it to start untill its cooled down!

This sounds more likely than a random short wire somewhere as it explains the relation to heat.

Any idea what it might be and what checks I could do to isolate this problem. Ideas??

Thanks

Andy

Andy,
I'm reading your posts and trying to sort the problems you are having out. If I'm reading correctly you have at least the problems below:

1) Starter will not crank at all after 20min. External power application and relay bypass do not activate the starter.
2) Scooter also dies after 20min.
3) When running (-- prior to dying at 20min?) a shock is received from the fuel tap. Apparently sync'd with the ign.
--> Is any part of you body touching another part of the scooter too?
4) Battery is not charging.

---
Looking at items 1 2 and 3 together - one idea check the ground between engine to frame. There should be a green wire to the starter terminal that ends up back to frame and battery negative terminal. If the engine ground becomes a resistive connection ('bad ground, rusty ground') you might get a weak shock between fuel tap and the engine case. Bad ground could cause a starter problem too.

For the ignition problems - have you checked for spark right after it dies at the ~20 min point (kickstart?).

So this means that there could be a component malfunctioning somewhere (causing a short to the frame) that then completely dies when it is hot causing the bike to stall and not allow it to start untill its cooled down!

Any of the ignition components could have an intermittent thermal problem. With all working ok on a cold bike, you might be able to isolate the problem by gentle heating (hair dryer) of individual components (Coil/CDI). The stator coils (spark exiciter and pulse coil) can have a thermal failures too. And

But back to all your problems together - I'd jump into the starter first, it's should be the easiest to fix, and there's the chance its solution

-- mousewheels

Mousewheels,

Problems sorted!! Thanks for the help - you were spot on. There was a melted wire coming of the starter in the large clump of wires on the LHS of the seat. Just fixed that up and everything worked perfect. It occasionally stalls but I lifted the idle and its fine now.

Thanks for your help. Now just have to work out why it kicks and bucks around when you take off! Feels like the rear wheel is gettign ripped off each time you take off. Once at speed it is fine though. I'll have a read about that one.

Cheers Guys

Andy

andyp23 wrote: Now just have to work out why it kicks and bucks around when you take off!

My Spree is always like that when it's cold. Takes a long time, maybe 2km, to warm up. It's really annoying. But when it's hot it's OK.

Greetings:

Bucky take-off sounds like an out-of-round clutch bell to me, unless it only does it while it's cold.

mine did that and it turned out to be really bad clutch pads, i replaced(bought from wheelmans timmy) and no problems at all at any temp. new belt is in order also.

Hey guys i got same issue with my 85 spree, the thing literally starts fine at cold, battery is charging, carby is clean, mixture screw is in the correct place(hopefully) although a pic of the correct position of the mixture screw. Will run fine til being switched off and barely will start when warm. I have noticed on the seal on the outside of the reed cage, theres air coming out from one part of it. Also has new spark plug, not sure whats causing it. This is the only thing stopping it from being ridden on the road full time.
Thanks all.

Greetings:

Quoth Woodsie:

I have noticed on the seal on the outside of the reed cage, theres air coming out from one part of it.

We have our heading. Disassemble once you find/make a new gasket. This has to be clean, clean, Clean. Reassemble with new gasked and double check for no air in/out. Can't possibly tune otherwise.