86 Honda Spree Runs but Won't Charge Battery

[Gramps]

Hello everyone,

I have a 1986 Honda Spree which won't hold a charge on the battery. I replaced the old battery with a new one and the bike fired right up. Drove it for a little while and everything seemed ok. Came out the next day and the battery was dead or almost dead and the scooter wouldn't turn over. I used the kick start and it took awhile for me to get it started but once it fired up it was fine. I drove it around for awhile between 20-25mph trying to charge the battery but when I shut the bike off and tried to restart it with the electric starter I got nothing.
Next I tried putting the battery on a charger and charging it to see if it would a charge, which it did. I placed the fully recharged battery back in the scooter and used the electric start button and if fired right up. Drove it around for awhile and at the end of the ride the battery was drained.
If anyone has any suggestions I'd apprecaite it as well as a place to find the right parts to fix the bike. Much apprecaited.

V/R
Gramps

[az_slynch]

Couple of quick questions:

1) Did you fully charge the battery before putting it in your spree?
2) did you trickle chagre or quick charge the battery?
3) Did you check your battery terminals for corrosion?
4) Was the bike run for a time without a battery?

The problem could be caused by bad connections, a flaky battery, a bad rectifier or even an alternator. I'd recommend downloading the service manual located at http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewto ... ?f=11&t=37

Check out section 14, it goes into procedures on how to test the various parts of the charging system.

EDIT: Changed question #4, changed "battery" to "bike".

[Gramps]

Initially the battery was brand new out of the box when it first went in. When it was recharged it was trickle charged. The terminals are free and clear of corrosion. I'm not sure what you mean with number 4. I think you may have meant to type something else but I'm not sure how to answer the question.

Thanks very much for your response.

V/R
Gramps

[az_slynch]

Item #4 was asked because the battery helps regulate power on some Honda models. On bikes without a regulator/rectifier, running without a battery can blow the headlamp. A Spree has a regulator/rectifier. I think the rectifier can be damaged if the bike if run without a battery for a prolonged period.

[Gramps]

Sorry,

Appreciate the explanation. No, the scooter was not run without the battery in place. Thanks again for the explanation. If you were going to start replacing parts, where would you start?

I think alternator but I'm not sure.

V/R
Gramps

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

I wouldn't start replacing parts until I'd gone through the Service Manual checklist as suggested above. Most of it can be done with a $10 multi-tester from HF or $25 for a better one from a big-box Home store.

[Gramps]

Got it....I'll spend some time this weekend workign through it and see what gives.

Much appreciated.

V/R
Gramps

[Gramps]

Here's what I've done and found to date:

I trickle charged the battery all day on a charger at work and when I put it in the scooter when I got home I pressed the horn and it sounded loudly.
I checked the starter fuze (located next to the battery) and found that it is not blown and appears to be good. I tried to start the scooter using the battery (I'm still not sure it was fully charged and am going to re-charge it again tomorrow) and the scooter would not start.

I kicked started the scooter and it fired up after about twenty or so kicks (hard to start). When the throttle is rev'd way up the lights brighten substantially. In fact, at idle the lights barely even come on and the blinkers will not work. When throttled up again with the turn signal on the light will start to work just fine and blink but return to dim as soon as the throttle is released.

When I shut the scooter off and attempted to restart with the electric start switch I got nothing. No nothing. I pressed the horn button and found that the horn would barely even sound. If fact, after the second time there was no sound at all. When I re-kickstarted the scooter and rev'd the throttle the horn sounds just fine.

I'm not very good with a multi-meter yet and could use a little help on what might be wrong.

Thanks again for the help and suggestions.

V/R
Gramps

[mousewheels]

Gramps,
Hi!
Looking at your thread - from replacing the battery to discharge of the new battery and the blown fuse, one failure I've seen is a bad regulator.

Once the fuse is blown to the turn signals & horn you don't *have* a battery to power them. At idle, the charge circuit cannot supply enough energy to run the turn signals. The horn needs steady DC to give a good tone. The regulator output is a pulsed waveform.

Couple easy tests for a bad bad regulator follow, pick the one which is most expedient, there's not likely a need to run more than one.

1) Recharge your battery again, replace the fuse, then connect the battery up again. If it blows, try unplugging the regulator, and putting in *one more* fuse. It should no longer blow. That pretty confirms the regulator is bad.

2) The Spree manual does not give resistance tests for the regulator, but other models such as the 1985-87 Aero 50 do. You can use the resistance values from the Aero as a ballpark.

3) Another method is to disconnect the battery + lead and connect an ammeter (or DMM set to the 10A scale) between the battery + terminal and the red wire. Have a good fuse in place for the test. With the ignition off there should be no current flow. Fuse blowing or measurement of current flow makes the regulator suspect. Next un-plug the regulator. If the current drops to zero, or the fuse no longer blows, the regulator is bad.

[Bear45-70]

Gramps,
Hi!
Looking at your thread - from replacing the battery to discharge of the new battery and the blown fuse, one failure I've seen is a bad regulator.

Once the fuse is blown to the turn signals & horn you don't *have* a battery to power them. At idle, the charge circuit cannot supply enough energy to run the turn signals. The horn needs steady DC to give a good tone. The regulator output is a pulsed waveform.

Couple easy tests for a bad bad regulator follow, pick the one which is most expedient, there's not likely a need to run more than one.

1) Recharge your battery again, replace the fuse, then connect the battery up again. If it blows, try unplugging the regulator, and putting in *one more* fuse. It should no longer blow. That pretty confirms the regulator is bad.

2) The Spree manual does not give resistance tests for the regulator, but other models such as the 1985-87 Aero 50 do. You can use the resistance values from the Aero as a ballpark.

3) Another method is to disconnect the battery + lead and connect an ammeter (or DMM set to the 10A scale) between the battery + terminal and the red wire. Have a good fuse in place for the test. With the ignition off there should be no current flow. Fuse blowing or measurement of current flow makes the regulator suspect. Next un-plug the regulator. If the current drops to zero, or the fuse no longer blows, the regulator is bad.

I agree, classic symptoms of a bad regulator/rectifier. Test it the Aero manual and I bet it fails.

[toad772]

Gramps,
Hi!
Looking at your thread - from replacing the battery to discharge of the new battery and the blown fuse, one failure I've seen is a bad regulator.

Once the fuse is blown to the turn signals & horn you don't *have* a battery to power them. At idle, the charge circuit cannot supply enough energy to run the turn signals. The horn needs steady DC to give a good tone. The regulator output is a pulsed waveform.

Couple easy tests for a bad bad regulator follow, pick the one which is most expedient, there's not likely a need to run more than one.

1) Recharge your battery again, replace the fuse, then connect the battery up again. If it blows, try unplugging the regulator, and putting in *one more* fuse. It should no longer blow. That pretty confirms the regulator is bad.

2) The Spree manual does not give resistance tests for the regulator, but other models such as the 1985-87 Aero 50 do. You can use the resistance values from the Aero as a ballpark.

3) Another method is to disconnect the battery + lead and connect an ammeter (or DMM set to the 10A scale) between the battery + terminal and the red wire. Have a good fuse in place for the test. With the ignition off there should be no current flow. Fuse blowing or measurement of current flow makes the regulator suspect. Next un-plug the regulator. If the current drops to zero, or the fuse no longer blows, the regulator is bad.

"I checked the starter fuse (located next to the battery) and found that it is NOT blown and appears to be GOOD."

[Bear45-70]

"I checked the starter fuse (located next to the battery) and found that it is NOT blown and appears to be GOOD."

If the lights come one when the ignition is turned on then the fuse is good and does not need to be checked, which still leave the regulator/rectifer causing your problem. Only a low resistance or direct short will cause a blown fuse. But even a good regulator/rectifier will drain the battery if given enough time (several months) but a bad reg/rect can take as little as a couple of hours.

[Gramps]

Thanks very much,

I'm going to perform the regulator check as suggested. I'm glad someone caught that the fuze appears to be GOOD. I'll check again and then double check and keep posting until I run this to ground.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

V/R
Gramps

[Bear45-70]

Thanks very much,

I'm going to perform the regulator check as suggested. I'm glad someone caught that the fuze appears to be GOOD. I'll check again and then double check and keep posting until I run this to ground.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

V/R
Gramps

The fuse controls 12 volts plus to everything that uses it except the big battery wire to the starter solenoid and on to the starter. However if the fuse is bad the starter solenoid will not activae, hence no electric start.

[Gramps]

Just to make sure I'm looking at the right and one and only fuze we're talking about. Is the fuze we're talking about the one that's on the right side of the battery holder underneath the seat. The fuze is inside a white plastic oblong enclosure which snaps togther and slides done next to the battery holder. Just want to make sure we're talking about the same fuze.

I may replace it anyways and would like to know the specifications on the fuze. Comments are very welcome.

V/R
John