Hard Starting. Too much fuel

[scootngo]

Hi All,

I've been thinking about this for a week or so and can't figure it out.

I have an '84 spree, full stock. From a cold(overnite sitting) start and the correct idle settings it will not start. Checking the plug is very wet (too much fuel).

If I turn in the idle screw ALL the way(closed), it will start in 2 or 3 or 4 tries. Once it warms a minute or two, I can turn the idle screw out 1 and 7/8ths and it runs fine. Once hot, it will always start up with the correct factory settings.

I am trying to figure if its the bystarter (i've checked and it seems to heat up and move the needle ok), the idle circuit, the float level(its not overflowing the bowl), the float needle or something else. I am going to go see how to check the float level.

Sometimes (2-3 times now) it will start on the first hit, run for 10 seconds and die. then I turn in the idle all the way and it will start.

Anyone have any clues to what these symptoms point to?

Thanks

[85stroka]

did you check the airfuel mixture screw? 1.25 to 1.75 turns, most just go 1.5 turns
does run good? could be a bad spark plug cap,low compression?

[uspmale]

Sounds to me like the by-starter is good but the pick-up tube is clogged and or loose. Disassemble and clean all orifices, and blow out with compressed air. Make sure the brass down tube fits tight into the carb bowl.Good luck. Let me know how this works, greg

[scootngo]

Ok. I have done that 3 times already. The last time I found the bystarter feed hole in the bowl was clogged and the idle feed was somewhat blocked. I'll go at it again probably next weekend.

But this brings a point to document every tiny detail about the carb. On the bystarter tube there are 4 tiny holes near the top. Right?

Next time I take it apart, I think I will photograph every phase.

Thanks for the ideas!

[tonrogs]

I seem to have a similar problem. Now, when you turn in the idle screw, that actually lessens the air in the mixture making your start richer. So you are not getting enough fuel as opposed to your thought of getting to much. This seems to be my problem as well. I have had luck with reaching down and pinching the intake tube to help choke it a bit. I am going to try a different carb because I dont like the one I have. I have also tried 2 different bystarters that seem to function perfectly fine.

[ryanmcfinney]

Sounds like my problem too... i'll be watching this thread....

[scootngo]

OK, so
1. The idle/pilot jet could still be constricted(smaller than spec) with junk.

2. The o-ring for the bystarter isn't sealing well, letting in too much air.
Possible causing the bystart to not draw enough fuel.

3. The crank seal leaks air???

Will let you guys know in a few days.

[noiseguy]

From the sounds of the problem something in the bystarter circuit isn't working or is plugged, b/c if your idle jet was plugged it wouldn't do a warm idle. Greg's found several carbs with plugged circuits in the bystarter passages, and I'm beginning to wonder if this is the root cause of some of the cold-start problems that we see here.

[tonrogs]

From the sounds of the problem something in the bystarter circuit isn't working or is plugged, b/c if your idle jet was plugged it wouldn't do a warm idle. Greg's found several carbs with plugged circuits in the bystarter passages, and I'm beginning to wonder if this is the root cause of some of the cold-start problems that we see here.

Could we get a picture of where this is occurring?

[scootngo]

Well fellas, I haven't torn down my carb yet, because this weekend the scoot started flawlessly each time cold! Yes, carbs are tempermental beasts.

The bystarter circuit has its own little feed tube inside the carb bowl. This tube is fed from the main bowl via a tiny brass insert. This tiny brass insert has a very tiny hole in it at a slight angle. Use the tiniest wire on a carb cleaning wire set.

This tiny passage was plugged on mine weeks ago when I did the 3rd teardown.

Also the brass feed tube has 4 tiny holes near the top.

I can't wait till it warms up here...and I can scoot more...

[uspmale]

Yes, Yes, Yes, finally someone properly cleaned the cold start circuit properly! With the bowl off, turn the carb body upside down. tap the brass rod through the top of the by-starter cylinder with a piece of hardwood.
There you'll see the tiny holes that have to be opened.After cleaned, lower the tube with flange up and tap in from the top side with a hardwood drift. It's a friction fit so it doesnt take a lot of tapping to seat it.
Glad it worked out. The factory manual doesn't say nil about these techniques.It comes from time spent over the years though trial and error.
Although the book is OK, it's not to be used for fine tuning of your Spree.