Got a new Spree, won't start -- flooded crankcase?

[anijap]

Hey guys,

I've discovered this site after getting an '85 honda spree about 3 weeks ago.
The guy I got it from said it was running just fine, then it sat in the garage over the winter and now it doesn't start.

I'm not very mechanically inclined (but I'm learning and is one of the reasons I bought the scooter) but I've tried quite a few things that people on this board usually point to when a spree not start:
1) I've cleaned the petcock and made sure it works by sucking on the vacuum line
2) Took apart & cleaned the carb
3) Made sure fuel is getting to the carb
4) Battery is FULLY charged
5) All turn/break lights work fine

Only recently I found out that I didn't even *need* to clean the carb/petcock as a first step.
The problem with my scooter is that I can hear the starter motor engaging (loud click) but the engine does not turn over.

My next suspicion is that it might be a flooded crankcase.
I've read that you have to take the plug out and hold the electric start for around 30 seconds.

a) isn't it bad to hold the electric starter for more than 5 seconds?
b) what does it mean to take the plug out? Is it just the cap that goes on top of it, or do I have to physically remove the entire plug from the engine?

Thanks a lot for any other suggestions of what I can try to make it run.
I've been determined on fixing it myself, but if I can't do it over the next few days I think I'll just end up taking it to a shop. This has taken far too long and it's getting frustrating....

[toad772]

Hey guys,

I've discovered this site after getting an '85 honda spree about 3 weeks ago.
The guy I got it from said it was running just fine, then it sat in the garage over the winter and now it doesn't start.

I'm not very mechanically inclined (but I'm learning and is one of the reasons I bought the scooter) but I've tried quite a few things that people on this board usually point to when a spree not start:
1) I've cleaned the petcock and made sure it works by sucking on the vacuum line
2) Took apart & cleaned the carb
3) Made sure fuel is getting to the carb
4) Battery is FULLY charged
5) All turn/break lights work fine

Only recently I found out that I didn't even *need* to clean the carb/petcock as a first step.
The problem with my scooter is that I can hear the starter motor engaging (loud click) but the engine does not turn over.

My next suspicion is that it might be a flooded crankcase.
I've read that you have to take the plug out and hold the electric start for around 30 seconds.

a) isn't it bad to hold the electric starter for more than 5 seconds?
b) what does it mean to take the plug out? Is it just the cap that goes on top of it, or do I have to physically remove the entire plug from the engine?

Thanks a lot for any other suggestions of what I can try to make it run.
I've been determined on fixing it myself, but if I can't do it over the next few days I think I'll just end up taking it to a shop. This has taken far too long and it's getting frustrating....

The plug is the spark plug and yes take the spark plug out taking the boot off will do nothing. If it was flooded it would still turn over just wouldn't start.

[anijap]

The plug is the spark plug and yes take the spark plug out taking the boot off will do nothing. If it was flooded it would still turn over just wouldn't start.

Thanks, will try that when I get home.
If the engine was in fact flooded, will this fix the problem or do I have to do something else to get the gas out the engine?

[toad772]

The plug is the spark plug and yes take the spark plug out taking the boot off will do nothing. If it was flooded it would still turn over just wouldn't start.

Thanks, will try that when I get home.
If the engine was in fact flooded, will this fix the problem or do I have to do something else to get the gas out the engine?

Well if it is flooded just take the plug out run the starter a bit(don't run it for more then 10-15 seconds) and maybe leave the plug out over night for the gas to evaporate. But if the motor isn't turning and the starter relay just clicks you probably have a starter problem or you motor is locked up.

[evilone]

Oil pump could leak and cause motor to "hydro-lock" causing it to not turn over. Been there, done that.

[martynkim]

I see you have an 85 IF someone put a kick start on it you could kick over the motor and get it out.

Otherwise electric start is the only option crank for 15 sec wait 30 and repeat until all the oil/gas is out.

[anijap]

Went to the hardware store and got me a 13/16 socket to remove the spark plug.

Got it out, and then proceeded to run the electric start.
A lot of oil started spewing out the opening.

Cleaned it up and repeated the process quite a few times (~10).

Then I put the spark plug back in and tried starting it.
It sounded promising for a second but still no dice.

I am thinking all that oil is still getting to the spark plug and clogging it.
Anything else I can do? Do I need a new spark plug or can I still salvage this one?

*This scooter has been sitting in the garage of the previous owner for at least half a year, I am thinking that all the gas evaporated from the engine leaving all the oil I saw spew out as described above.
I am hoping the oil pump is not leaking, like evilone pointed out.

[anijap]

I see you have an 85 IF someone put a kick start on it you could kick over the motor and get it out.

Otherwise electric start is the only option crank for 15 sec wait 30 and repeat until all the oil/gas is out.

No kickstart on it. Guess I'll keep trying to get all the oil/gas out... need to get a new rag, the one I was using is now completely soaked in oil

[martynkim]

New plug recomended. Buy a couple. Likely fouled badly if that much oil was in there.

[Bear45-70]

New plug recomended. Buy a couple. Likely fouled badly if that much oil was in there.

I agree 100%.

[anijap]

Trying to find a spark plug online, and was going for the BPR6HSA.

http://www.amazon.com/NGK-BPR6HSA-Tradi ... B000CSGX60

Does anyone know why the top part of the plug that inserts into the boot looks different in that picture?
Will it not fit my Spree? I thought all NGK BPR6HSA's would be the same.

P.S: same with http://www.amazon.com/NGK-Iridium-Spark ... B000GZHKBG
P.S.S: could not find any auto store in Seattle that stocks's these plugs, if someone know's otherwise please do let me know

[Bear45-70]

Trying to find a spark plug online, and was going for the BPR6HSA.

http://www.amazon.com/NGK-BPR6HSA-Tradi ... B000CSGX60

Does anyone know why the top part of the plug that inserts into the boot looks different in that picture?
Will it not fit my Spree? I thought all NGK BPR6HSA's would be the same.

P.S: same with http://www.amazon.com/NGK-Iridium-Spark ... B000GZHKBG
P.S.S: could not find any auto store in Seattle that stocks's these plugs, if someone know's otherwise please do let me know

You are nuts to be paying big money for the Iridium plug, besides it is not gonna make the motor preform better. Just buy the standard BPR6HS plug. Most any car parts store will have that spark plug. *, even in little old Shelton 2 out of 3 of the auto parts stores carry that plug.

[anijap]

Trying to find a spark plug online, and was going for the BPR6HSA.

http://www.amazon.com/NGK-BPR6HSA-Tradi ... B000CSGX60

Does anyone know why the top part of the plug that inserts into the boot looks different in that picture?
Will it not fit my Spree? I thought all NGK BPR6HSA's would be the same.

P.S: same with http://www.amazon.com/NGK-Iridium-Spark ... B000GZHKBG
P.S.S: could not find any auto store in Seattle that stocks's these plugs, if someone know's otherwise please do let me know

You are nuts to be paying big money for the Iridium plug, besides it is not gonna make the motor preform better. Just buy the standard BPR6HS plug. Most any car parts store will have that spark plug. *, even in little old Shelton 2 out of 3 of the auto parts stores carry that plug.

Alright, I'll take a look if any car parts stores around me have it.
But my question still holds, why does the top part of the plug (the one that you insert into the boot) look different in some of the BPR6HSA's I've seen? For example:

1) This is what mine looks like: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-NQ ... _770wt_939
2) This is what some of the other one's I've seen look like: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... _500wt_956

What is the difference?

[Bear45-70]

On the stock plug the top cap unscrews leaving just the threaded shaft.

[anijap]

On the stock plug the top cap unscrews leaving just the threaded shaft.

Ah, makes sense now. Thanks Bear, I'm clearly a newbie at this.. but learning more and more along the way.