87? spree no power 15 mph max bogs @ 4000

volvoman420 · Post by **volvoman420** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:17 am

hello, recently got this spree beleive it to be an 87... starts up and runs great @ idle.... if you get on it and give it throttle it does not want to go.. if you help it it will go about 15 mph and stay there.. i have done everything i can think of and lots of what i have read here and other places before posting and it still runs the same.....

THE LIST----
hot blue spark
cleaned carb.... now 3 times(complete diassembly and cleaning)
adjusted carb mix and idle
checked lines for being clogged
checked fuel flow (actuated with vacuum from engine running with carb hooked to 20 oz bottle full of gas)
check tank for rust... none
check gap on pick up for cdi was at about .032.. reset to about .010
cleaned flywheel inside and out kinda rusty
replaced air filter and oiled
new plug... thought new one was bad bought another
checked bystarter operation with 12v batt and while scooter was running...
also did ohms test on bystarter 4.5 ohms (tests good from what i have read here)
replaced bystarter o-ring
checked intake for clog and looked into cylinder with exhaust off carbon doesnt look like an issue in this one
checked exhaust for being clogged... ran parts washer thru it for three days straight blew out with compressed air... going to wiegh it soon
checked compression with throttle @ wot duh.... 122lbs
ran engine with exhaust off no change @#$%^&
removed bystarter and plugged holes and ran engine with exhaust off same thing !@#$%^

scooter is bone stock has everything.....
if i put it up on the stand and hook an inductive pickup to the coil wire with a test tach it will only hit 4000 rpm wot.. spray carb cleaner in intake while checking rpm on stand dies out.... definatly not lean...

only thing i can think of is a reed valve prob (if it has em.. i would assume 2 smokes normally do)
or a break down with either the pick up.. the coil or the cdi unit limiting rpm to 4000
sorry this is so long wanted to include everything to make it easier
im at a loss on this one... please help

any input would be great thank you in advance... volvoman420

Post by **noiseguy** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:05 am

My thoughts:

- Overoiled air filter (wrap it in a paper towel and sqeeeeze)
- Rear clutch is shot. How many miles on this beast? Measure the pads.
- Wrong size main jet (should be 65 or 68, check stamping on main jet)

You've covered everything else. I'm pretty certain this is not a CDI problem, BTW. Contact Greg at upsmale@yahoo.com to test the CDI if you'd like, though.

darat · Post by **darat** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:16 am

well with the pads and clutch i found that out that a sb elite rear pulley works just fine.

volvoman420 · Post by **volvoman420** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:45 am

thanks for your input i will be trying the paper towel squeeze this evening...checking the rear clutch pads and will also be checking the main jet size ... i agree with you on the cdi issue (in my experience when a cdi fails it wont run at all)... ill post the results later this evening

thanks volvoman420

ohh yeah "the beast" has 3400 miles on it and the speedo functions

Post by **noiseguy** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:43 pm

3000 miles is about the usual clutch replacement point on these.

darat · Post by **darat** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:00 pm

yep i did mine at 3k

volvoman420 · Post by **volvoman420** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:43 pm

hello again heres what ive found...

did the squeeeeeze on the filter no progress
took out main jet found it to be the #65.. still clean
did not look into the clutch instead removed drive belt and reinstalled cover... still will not go over 4000 rpm
removed reed valve assy.. found reeds not closing all the way.. i did the old fliper oo on them and they perform nice... still bogs

im thinking it might have a timing advance issue ... which brings me to my next question... how does this ignition system advance timing???
in my experience with cdi ignition systems there is a timer base that rotates as the throttle is opened, but this "beast" does not have that
does anybody know?
once again thanks in advance for all the help
volvoman420

oooh yeah one more thing.. i was still thinking that the exhaust was to blam (clogged) so i too mr saw zall to the pipe 2" in front of muffler
!@#$%^& d*** thing still bogs !@#$%^

i think my spree will soon be an artifical reef

Kikwear · Post by **Kikwear** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:24 am

Oh snap...if you hacked the exhaust...you've got no power.

Post by **noiseguy** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:41 pm

Yep, don't do that to the exhaust. Weld it back up and stick it in a campfire for 15 minutes to burn it out. They won't run like that.

You need to check your clutch.

JF · Post by JF » Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:53 pm

You might also want to check the resistance levels on your alternator exciter coil. It should be between 500-900 ohms, and the lead to test will be the black/red wire coming from the alternator(negative goes to a ground on the bike). The reading on my old alternator was only slightly off, but it gave me huge problems. Not saying that is the issue, but at least it is something else to consider...

Good luck,
JF

volvoman420 · Post by **volvoman420** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:46 pm

hello again....
thanks for the input as always
soon after hacking the exhuast i welded her back up....
i will try the burn on the muffler... hello mr oxy acetyline torch
will have to try the resistence test on the exciter coil

has anyone outthere graphed measurements taken from a running spree??? my shop has and endless supply of electronic test equpment
(doesnt work too good if i cant compare signals to good ones !@#$%^&)
im still interested in how the spree advances ignition timing
i had a similar prob to this on a 15 hp suzuki outboard.. it works very simil to the spree except fot the advance mechanism (which i have yet to find on the spree)
just a thought.....

anyone have cheap ignition parts they could list on ebay with a payapal payment option....... ill purchase every last one of the igntion parts
on the spree just to rule it out....

once again thanks for all the input
volvoman420

Post by **noiseguy** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:32 am

Contact Greg at uspmale@yahoo.com for CDI parts and diagnostic services (testing CDI's, etc.)

Do a search on Ferchja's posts, he had a ton of electrical problems on his bike.

The Spree ignition is non-adjustable (without modification.) If you pull the fan you will see a metal chunk welded to the inside, with a pickup. That's sets the advance. Greg has a method for making the timing adjustable.

I think that you still have a fuel problem; those CDI's either work or don't. Have you tried replacing the rubber o-ring in the thermal decoupler (between the carb and manifold?) We've been starting to see these dry up and cause lean running.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:36 pm

i have the SAME exact problem, and ive tried everything...

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:33 pm

was in my garage today tryin to figure the spree and i noticed that one of the rubber rings on the carburetor was totally ruined. HOPEFULLY this is the problem, but if not, o well because it has to be replaced anyways.

Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

87? spree no power 15 mph max bogs @ 4000

87? spree no power 15 mph max bogs @ 4000

honda spree "the beast"

not a reef .....yet