Crank Case Full of Oil on my Spree

[wmontee]

Hi there! First off let me start off by saying I am ENTIRELY new to scooters, however I recently purchased two 1984 honda scooters for a deal!!!. one is an aero125 (runs, everything works) the next being a Spree.

The spree turns over, has good compression, has a strong spark, and everything works. here is the issue. the crank case is full of 2stroke oil, and i mean FULL. when the spark plug is removed and I hit the electric start, it turns over, and blows oil out of the spark plug hole. I have read around a bit on the forum, and looked at the manual available for download, and i am assuming the crank case is not supposed to be full of oil. today, i removed the motor, and rear tire section of the bike, and turned it upside down to drain. this is where I am at the moment, not sure what to do, and puzzled. the man I bought it from said it has been sitting for over a year, and told me he had tried to get it to start many times. possibly a small leak filled the crank case? ive read the O-ring leaking is fairly common on these?

ALSO, the fuel filter is clogged I bellieve, would this have anything at all to do with such a problem, I know its a stupid question, but I am new, and thought who knows maybe I should ask.

Any tips, advice, or solutions would be greatly appreciated! Please only post if you have something constructive to say? I didn't join this forum to be called an idiot, I joined because I like scooters, and I enjoy learning about them.

Thanks! Can't wait to get this scooter running hopefully!!!

[ChrisH821]

You are correct, the crank case should not be full of oil. Sounds like the seal on the oil pump drive is leaking, allowing the oil from the tank to leak down into the crank case. The fuel filter would not cause this to happen. However you can check if you are getting fuel by applying a vacuum to the lower line on the fuel petcock, when you do this fuel should flow through the upper line.

Also, if you haven't already, read this http://www.hondaspree.net/other/Spree_NQ50_84-87_1.pdf. Its very very helpful.

[wmontee]

Chris, thank you very much, it was really helpful! I guess another question I have, is after the crank case is drained, then what? does the crank case need to be filled with something other than 2stroke oil, or does it essentially just lube itself?

[wmontee]

drained the crank case, and cleaned everything up, got it running!!!! woohooo!!! ok, now I DO have three more questions

1. does the crank case need to be filled with anything?

2. ok, in the rear, there is oil in like the gears, well it drained out when i had the bike upside down, what tyop of oil do I fill it with?

3. my gas tank is rusted on the inside, has a small leak, any suggestions where to find a replacement?

also, the spree is a clean little scooter, thinking of keeping it mostly original (add a nice paint job, my dad restores and paints cars so hopefully turn out sick), SO i may post up some pics soon! any insight to my questions would be great!

[ChrisH821]

The case does not get filled with anything, it is actually part of the air intake system(this is why the oil that was in there was coming out the spark plug hole). The oil from the air fuel/oil mix does the lubricating of bearings and whatnot. For the final drive oil it suggests just using standard 10W40, add it until the level is up to the bottom of the hole you are filling it from. Its just like putting gear oil into a cars differential, only the hole is tiny and a PITA to keep oil from getting everywhere. For the gas tank, not sure... ebay maybe? or post a WTB ad.

[onna spree]

I use a 1 inch diameter plastic syringe to fill the back end, you can maybe get one at the vet's office, good luck.

[wmontee]

Hey thanks guys! great help and advice! ok, now this is going to sound a bit ridiculous, but do i need to lay the spree on its side while I do this, and fill entirely with 10w40, or do it with the scooter standing up, so it will be about 1/3 full if I fill it to the drain plug?

[gatekeeper]

Hey thanks guys! great help and advice! ok, now this is going to sound a bit ridiculous, but do i need to lay the spree on its side while I do this, and fill entirely with 10w40, or do it with the scooter standing up, so it will be about 1/3 full if I fill it to the drain plug?

It's not ridiculous if you don't know. Fill it while it is on the center stand till it starts to dribble out. re-install the bolt, wipe it down and you're good to go. Just don't reef to hard on the bolt and strip it out.

[TimmyC]

Hi Noob. Did you discover that the seal on your oil pump drive was leaking? Was that the issue?

Or did you just drain your crankcase and leave the oil pump drive seal alone?

Please let me know. I just acquired a super clean 85 Spree that hasn't been run in 21 years and I also have oil in my crank case. Trying to decide if I should just drain it and see if everything's OK, or if I should replace that seal right off the bat.

Thanks!

[Mystic]

drain the oil, a lot of the time all the oil is from repeated attempts at cranking the engine as well as slight leak-down over years of sitting with a full oil tank

[TimmyC]

Thanks, Mystic. I'll give it a shot. It definitely sat with oil in the tank. Fortunately, it did not sit with gasoline in the fuel tank.

Question One: Would an abundance of oil in the crankcase cause the engine to crank hard - or not at all? Because that is what I'm experiencing.

I just installed a new, fully charged battery and the engine won't turn over unless I have the plug pulled out (that's when it shoots oil all over the place). Prior to pulling the plug I almost thought the engine was seized or I had a bad starter.

Question Two: To drain, do I have to pull the engine and actually turn it upside down over a drain pan? If so, I assume I should drain the final drive oil before doing so?

[Mystic]

It would be easier to take the motor completely off plus it is really easy to do. basically 2 bolts hold it on. take the cylinder shroud off and turn updside down and let it drain out the plug hole or take the intake manifold off and pour it out from there but then you have to replace hte gaskets. you dont have to drain the trans oil but if you turn it upside down it will probably leak out the breather hose. the trans oil probably needs replacing too

[odinxxix]

to fill your spree gear oil you need to lay on its side and only put in 3oz of 10w-30/40

[evilone]

Hi Noob. Did you discover that the seal on your oil pump drive was leaking?

His screen name is "wmontee".
Noob is his status....like yours.

[TimmyC]

Thanks for your help everyone. I pulled the engine and it's draining now. I would estimate that about 3 or 4 oz of 2 cycle oil already poured out of the cylinder. I'm leaving it upside down overnight. It's clear that the carburetor needs cleaning, too; I'm going to do that tomorrow.

Unfortunately, the flywheel and pulse generator were lighted coated in 2 cycle oil, which tells me that the right crankcase seal leaked and my alternator is probably wet. This would explain the 2 cycle oil I noticed dripping out of the left case cover, too. I don't have a flywheel puller so hopefully the pulse generator and alternator will work, but I'm tempted to open the left case cover to wipe it out since anything that's in there will surely coat the belt once it's up and running.

What do you guys think? Should I wait to pull the left case until I confirm the scooter is running? Am I stupid for not considering flywheel removal?