1985 Honda Spree will not start. Totally out of ideas!

[ragtop89]

[fatcharlie]

NEVER clean a plug. It causes as many problems as it cures. Just replace the d*** thing, they are dirt cheap. Besides a new plug should be done at least once a year in the spring.

So you swap your plug out every time you have it out when troubleshooting something?

People have been cleaning plugs for longer than you've been alive Bear.... yes even you. I agree that its not as good as swapping to a new one... but when dealing with a wet plug and trying to troubleshoot, you may be buying a few more than the NGK 4 pack if you want to swap everytime.

The original poster did mention that he had put a new plug in it during troubleshooting. I can hardly advise him to keep swapping for fresh ones when troubleshooting a minor fouling issue.

Yeah they have and as a professional 2 stroke mechanic I can tell you it is a stupid route to follow. But then you are 12 and know everything, just ask you. But you are wrong.

Bear, why would you start with the personal attacks?

I'm simply trying to assist someone in the troubleshooting of their bike. I'm not insulting anyone. You on the other hand, even in my short time on this board, have insulted a bunch of people.

So you have been a professional 2 stroke wrench. Good for you. It certainly hasn't helped your attitude towards others on this board. (By the way, turning wrenches doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing... there are plenty of bad techs out there... just as many or more than good techs).

So here we are... I've assisted several in troubleshooting in the past few weeks... and you've spewed insults to many. I (partly) disagree with you on thing, and even give good reason for my disagreement, and I get called a 12 year old.

Who is the real 12 year old here Bear? Whats going on in your life that * you off so much about other people that you feel you have to belittle others on the internet?

The real fact is... that you don't know me. You don't know my background, you don't know my profession. You don't know my level of knowledge, whether it is lacking or if I am proficient with motors. (I'm sure you'll tell me I'm lacking once again - then post some picture from Google images). You don't know much about me, and I don't know much about you. Granted, I have to agree with some of what you say to people. But you're so quick to pull that trigger Bear, perhaps you should slow down and wait for bottom breath before you jump on and reply.

What I do know about you, however, is that you talk a lot of s*** to people on the internet... and its on a 1980's(ish) scooter forum of all places.

[Bear45-70]

I always attack STUPID. It needs to be stamped out but PC is working hard to make stupid the standard.

Oh and I don't want to know you. I just want you to stop pushing crap that is no longer works.

[fatcharlie]

Original poster- My apologies for being a part of the hijacking of this thread.

Let us know what you find. Good luck!

[Bear45-70]

FatCharlie - NOT trying to prove my superiority by being overBEARing on scooter forums since March 2012.

With that signature you are an arrogant * and doing exactly what you are accusing me of. So not only are you an arrogant * but a two faced son of a b**** too. I hope you are happy with the lie you live?

[389]

Is there oil on the top of your piston? Or oil in the crank case? This would cause it not to fire if there's too much. I'm still with the other leaning towards rings, even if it was 2 weeks ago, your rings can go just like that if something happened.

The plug is not only wet but does have a oily residue. How would I get oil in the crankcase? I didn't think 2 strokes had oil in the crankcase.

[Bear45-70]

Is there oil on the top of your piston? Or oil in the crank case? This would cause it not to fire if there's too much. I'm still with the other leaning towards rings, even if it was 2 weeks ago, your rings can go just like that if something happened.

The plug is not only wet but does have a oily residue. How would I get oil in the crankcase? I didn't think 2 strokes had oil in the crankcase.

If there was no oil in the crankcase all two strokes, they would all freeze up and not turn over. Why? The gas and oil mixture enters the crankcase thru the reeds. When the mixture is compressed in the crankcase by the piston moving down in the bore, some of the oil is forces into the bearings to lubricate them. Then the rest is forced into the cylinder where it is burned, So you always have oil in the crankcase AND the cylinder with a 2 stroke. 2 stroke plugs foul and need to be changed regularly. It is a fact of life and basic 2 stroke knowledge.

[SuprasNsprees]

its keeps getting better

[kingkamehameha]

Put a brand new one in

[389]

To Bear 45-70: That shows you what I know....anyway, I posted that I could turn the flywheel/fan over easy by hand with the plug in. Should I re-do the compression test since I can turn over by hand now rather than relying on the electric starter? How would you do a compression test on this engine using a compression gauge and the flywheel?

[Bear45-70]

To Bear 45-70: That shows you what I know....anyway, I posted that I could turn the flywheel/fan over easy by hand with the plug in. Should I re-do the compression test since I can turn over by hand now rather than relying on the electric starter? How would you do a compression test on this engine using a compression gauge and the flywheel?

Another moron hear from.

[389]

I re-did the compression test according to the Tech Doc in this forum using the electric start. I now read 98 psi. I was starting to think I had a compression issue. Now I don't know.
Is there anyway the auto bystarter would have anything to do with this problem?
As I said in my original post - I can not even get a "pop" out of the engine when everything seems to be OK. The plug is new and gapped correctly with a blue spark. Plug is wet after a quick hit on the starter with no throttle. Ignition timing according to the service manual is fixed and the flywheel seems solid to have a woodruff key problem. I am out of ideas at this point.

[speedy25]

Hey 389,

Sorry you got caught up in a flame while other people were trying to help.

Based on your descriptions and my personal experience your compression is too low. You typically cant turn the engine over by hand with a plug installed. Mine had the same trouble but I knew from experience mine had bad compression. Its an easy job to remove the cylinder and check the condition. Mine had stuck rings that were BADLY worn and the piston has also seized at some time previous. A fresh piston kit from chop chop cured that problem and the engine started easily.

Plugs- While Charlies advice can be used in a pinch I found out long ago that most if not all oil fouled plugs cannot be revived. Its MUCH less aggravating to just get a fresh NGK.

Wet plug with 3 seconds of starter? Thats very wrong. Either the crankcase is still filled with excess fuel of the float needle isnt sealing like it should. Also make sure the petcock shuts off properly and doesnt allow fuel to flow without a vacuum.

I hope something in this post works for you and you get your scooter back in running condition.

-SP

[389]

To speedy25: Thanks, yes I really didn't want to participate in all the flames that were going on.
As I posted someone - I do this for fun and relaxation.
Also - thanks for answering about being able to turn over the engine by using your hand on the flywheel. I didn't think that it should be that easy.
I also need to mention that even with the carb off the plug gets wet.
I would like to checkout the crankcase for fuel and oil - but I guess I have to pull the head and cylinder or is there another way? Also if I find oil or fuel in the crankcase - what is the best way to get it out?

[ragtop89]

Take your intake off and tip the motor on its side to drain out. Once you get it all out of the crank, try using a paper towel or some other cloth to dab it up out of the cylinder. Worked for me. TBH though, if you had a bunch of fluid in there, you wouldn't be able to crank it by hand, IMO...