Possible Bystarter?

thekingof7 · Post by **thekingof7** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:21 pm

Hey gang!

Stock 87 spree with minor repairs made. (slowly but surely)
Anyways, I have just replaced the clutch, belt, and tailpipe (used) and while for a short while things on the bike seemed to improve, I have noticed a recent issue with low end pickup for the scooter. I realize these sprees aren't known for their get up and go but this has gotten to be pretty bad.
When throttling right after a cold start the issue isn't very present, but after about 10min+ of riding the pickup just seems to go out the door. I have also noticed that my startups have become a little harder, requiring me to use the kick more often. I had attributed this to a weak battery, but now I am wondering if this is a bystarter issue.

Any thoughts?

P.S. - The carb was cleaned recently but may have been improply adjusted after adding the new tailpipe. Ran great before though.

-Cheers

thekingof7 · Post by **thekingof7** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:42 pm

I might add a another (possibly related) issue, involving the starter motor. This has also just become a problem, about 1 out of every 3 times the button is pushed a whining grind sounds emits at which point I disengage and allow for spin down. Again, not sure if there is a relation but you guys would know better than I, and I'd rather not go replacing parts willy nilly.

Best Wishes

Wheelman-111 · Post by **Wheelman-111** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:31 pm

Greetings:

If it runs well enough with the Bystarter "Cold" and starts to sputter when it warms up, there's still a problem with the carb. You wouldn't be first and won't be last to need to repeat the "cleaning" process until you can see the Legendary Tiny Pin-* O' Light that is the Pilot circuit.

The starter issue is probably not related. the Bendix that the starter motor spins isn't engaging reliably. Remove the belt cover and investigate, but do NOT activate the starter with the cover removed. Look for rounded-off teeth on the outer pulley sheave and/or the Bendix gears. Replace as needed.

patthesoundguy · Post by **patthesoundguy** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:43 pm

The starter bendix can get crusty. Mine dide that same prob so I cleaned it up and carefully put a little lithium grease in it to make it extend and retract better. Also clean the two ends where it spins in the cases and grease them, because the grease gets dried up and takes up the tolerance needed for proper operation

thekingof7 · Post by **thekingof7** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:48 pm

Just curiosity here but lets just say someone did activate the starter with the belt cover off, what would be the mechanical repercussions and recommended fixes?

Also would the outside temp surrounding the scooter affect the bystarters rate of cut off, (ie causing it to sense incorrectly when to move)

Sorry if these are rather strange questions. I'm still learning as I go.

Best Wishes

patthesoundguy · Post by **patthesoundguy** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:57 pm

Maybe the compression is dropping when the engine warms up was a thought about your takeoff issue.

thekingof7 · Post by **thekingof7** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:13 pm

patthesoundguy wrote:Maybe the compression is dropping when the engine warms up was a thought about your takeoff issue.

What would be some areas of interest and soluations if this is an issue?

Thanks

Bear45-70 · Post by **Bear45-70** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:40 pm

thekingof7 wrote:
patthesoundguy wrote:Maybe the compression is dropping when the engine warms up was a thought about your takeoff issue.
What would be some areas of interest and soluations if this is an issue?

Thanks

I have never seen an engine loose compression when warm.

thekingof7 · Post by **thekingof7** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:28 am

So basically I need to clean my carb throughly and do a once over on the starter, possible replace the spindle.

Guess I'll replace the lines and filters while Im at it.

Hopefully this remedies the hard starts and odd warmup slows.

I'll get back to everyone, with hopefully some stories of success.

Thanks fellas. :peace:

P.S. Any advice on a source of compressed air. Keep in mind Im on a budget living in a small apartment. Could a hand vacuum pump do the trick?

abreen89 · Post by **abreen89** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:45 am

thekingof7 wrote:So basically I need to clean my carb throughly and do a once over on the starter, possible replace the spindle.

Guess I'll replace the lines and filters while Im at it.

Hopefully this remedies the hard starts and odd warmup slows.

I'll get back to everyone, with hopefully some stories of success.

Thanks fellas.

P.S. Any advice on a source of compressed air. Keep in mind Im on a budget living in a small apartment. Could a hand vacuum pump do the trick?

you can buy a bottle of compressed carb clean at any auto parts store.. You can get a can of compressed air (use for cleaning key boards) at walmart in the business office supply section or any office supply store...

SpreeWilly · Post by **SpreeWilly** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:34 am

I'm a lot like you--learning as I go, one Spree fix at a time, and relatively mechanically inexperienced, but I've just been through what you're doing.

I hate to be pessimistic but I don't think you'll be able to increase your acceleration, and if you do, I'd like to know the remedy.

My 84 Spree does the same thing. When it first starts up, the acceleration is good. When it warms up, my acceleration seems to be cut in half. I have searched high and low for the cure, with no luck. I've tightened the transmission bolts, changed the oil in my final reduction gears, made sure all transmission gear teeth were sharp and in tact, thoroughly cleaned out my carburetor, replaced my bystarter, inspected my belt, and adjusted the air/fuel mixture screws. Still, the acceleration is mediocre when it warms up.

I have ordered a new air filter and will be chemically cleaning out my stock exhaust soon to see if that will help. I'll let you know what happens.

By the way, my starter does the same thing- 1 of every 3 is a whine. I'm gonna have to look into that, thanks for the reminder.

Best of luck, and keep me posted!

Bear45-70 · Post by **Bear45-70** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:41 am

SpreeWilly wrote:I'm a lot like you--learning as I go, one Spree fix at a time, and relatively mechanically inexperienced, but I've just been through what you're doing.

I hate to be pessimistic but I don't think you'll be able to increase your acceleration, and if you do, I'd like to know the remedy.

My 84 Spree does the same thing. When it first starts up, the acceleration is good. When it warms up, my acceleration seems to be cut in half. I have searched high and low for the cure, with no luck. I've tightened the transmission bolts, changed the oil in my final reduction gears, made sure all transmission gear teeth were sharp and in tact, thoroughly cleaned out my carburetor, replaced my bystarter, inspected my belt, and adjusted the air/fuel mixture screws. Still, the acceleration is mediocre when it warms up.

I have ordered a new air filter and will be chemically cleaning out my stock exhaust soon to see if that will help. I'll let you know what happens.

By the way, my starter does the same thing- 1 of every 3 is a whine. I'm gonna have to look into that, thanks for the reminder.

Best of luck, and keep me posted!

The cure is clean your carb and if that doesn't fix it, clean the carb again and if that doesn't do clean the carb again. Look in Wikispreedia in the Technical Section under carb cleaning. There are several threads on it.

abreen89 · Post by **abreen89** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:55 am

My spree only does 25 until its warmed up then it will do 30 np

SpreeWilly · Post by **SpreeWilly** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:14 am

My Spree hits 30, sometimes 31 or 32 on a completely flat surface--and it's all stock.
The problem is acceleration bogs down after warming up.
I understand a dirty carburetor would cause this, but I'm telling you I've thoroughly cleaned it. There's no more carbon deposits to be had. Still, I'll clean it again just to make sure.
Nevertheless, telling me to do something again and again and again after I've made it very clear that I've done it, is simply not productive and frankly mildly rude.
Here's my next plan of action per the Spree Service Manual, 6-1:

Compression too low, hard starting or poor performance at low speed:
1. Leaking cylinder head gasket
2. Loose Spark Plug
3. Worn, stuck, or broken piston rings
4. Worn or damaged cylinder or pistons
5. Faulty reed valve

Bear45-70 · Post by **Bear45-70** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:13 pm

SpreeWilly wrote:My Spree hits 30, sometimes 31 or 32 on a completely flat surface--and it's all stock.
The problem is acceleration bogs down after warming up.
I understand a dirty carburetor would cause this, but I'm telling you I've thoroughly cleaned it. There's no more carbon deposits to be had. Still, I'll clean it again just to make sure.
Nevertheless, telling me to do something again and again and again after I've made it very clear that I've done it, is simply not productive and frankly mildly rude.
Here's my next plan of action per the Spree Service Manual, 6-1:

Compression too low, hard starting or poor performance at low speed:
1. Leaking cylinder head gasket Not likely with the top speeds you are getting.
2. Loose Spark Plug See above
3. Worn, stuck, or broken piston rings See above
4. Worn or damaged cylinder or pistons See above
5. Faulty reed valve Not if it is easy to start.

Experience says clean the carb again.

Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums