2001 Elite S kick issue

[Duosport]

Hello I joined this forum today because yesterday I aquired a non running 2001 Elite S. My task obviously is to get it running or atleast find out if it is worth an investment in time and parts to get running. The battery I was told was new. When I got the bike home I attempted the key and found there were no turn signals or horn so I tested the battery with a volt meter and it was dead. I put a charge on it for several hours and then I had signals and a strong horn but for the starter there was just a click. I then tested for voltage at the battery and then again at the relay and got over 12v at both locations. I then pulled the relay from the connection which was very had to remove. I found some corrosion at the connection which I cleaned but still only clicking. Then I opened up the case for the variator. I should mention also that there was no kick start pedal with the bike and the kick start shaft splines were badly worn and damaged. Inside I found that the kick starter gear was missing. I also found that the face drive had been contacting parts of the cover and had worn the cover down at those points. I then attempted to engage the starter motor with the cover off. I know that with the cover off it is not going to work properly but the motor did engage pretty well, so then I looked at the cover and found that the bushing in the cover that the starter shaft sits in was worn and out of round.

so what I am wondering is it OK to run this scooter with the kick gear removed as it is? Clearly the face drive is pushing out farther than it is intended to as it is contacting the case cover. I would really like to see if I can get the scooter started before ordering parts for the kick start.

[Duosport]

I guess photos make the thread more interesting. Here is my non runner non beauty.

[Duosport]

Here is the open case. You can see the odd contact grinding marks on the face drive.

[Duosport]

Here you can see the worn bushing for the electric start and the other points of contact wear on the case itself.

[paulpauly7]

just remove the kickstart and gears also make sure the nut on the end of the crank holding on the drive face is up to tourqe specs and the drive face is located on its splines properly

[kingkamehameha]

Buy all new parts from honda. New half moon gear and spring as well as a new drive face, belt, clutch. Clean the carb new oiled filter, spark plug, coil, fresh 10w30 in the gears. Clean and inspect petcock and bystarter. Should be running like a champ

[Duosport]

The bushing in the red circle is for the starter shaft and it is worn out of round. I ordered one to replace it. I think this is the source of my starter not engaging properly. I think the starter pinion is shifting slightly in the worn bushing and binding with the drive face gear. I ordered a new bushing and have attempted to remove the old but it is fused in there pretty good. Is there a good way to remove it from the cover without damaging anything?

[Duosport]

Buy all new parts from honda. New half moon gear and spring as well as a new drive face, belt, clutch. Clean the carb new oiled filter, spark plug, coil, fresh 10w30 in the gears. Clean and inspect petcock and bystarter. Should be running like a champ

If I find out the clutch is faulty I will replace it same with the other parts. Half moon and spring look just fine. I have already cleaned the carburetor. I have no idea about the coil yet. I have not checked for spark as I have no means of cranking the scooter at the moment. First things first.

[Duosport]

Acch! Now I got the battery charged up and the drive face sorted out so the starter motor engages correctly. I have the carb cleaned up well and put a new plug in. I have a good spark and gasoline in the bowl. I primed the cylinder with some starter fluid and crank it over and I get nothing. I tried this several times. With some starter fluid in the cylinder I should at least get a little pop. I am starting to wonder about proper compression but I should still get a little pop, even if it does not actually start right?

[swflcarl]

Here comes the starting fluid. It can damage your two stroke motor. Get a squeeze bottle with premix and use it instead.

Have you verified spark? If not ... pull plug and ground the top and tap the starter.

Did your check compression? You can buy or rent at local autoparts store. Let us know what you get.

While there... pick up a new NGK plug. Reference the service manual for correct number.

Stay with it my friend.

[Duosport]

Here comes the starting fluid. It can damage your two stroke motor. Get a squeeze bottle with premix and use it instead.

Have you verified spark? If not ... pull plug and ground the top and tap the starter.

Did your check compression? You can buy or rent at local autoparts store. Let us know what you get.

While there... pick up a new NGK plug. Reference the service manual for correct number.

Stay with it my friend.

I have a new correct NGK plug. Gotcha on the starter fluid. I have a cheap compression guage infact I have two from harbor freight. I bought the first one a few years ago when I bought a scooter that I got running but had no power. I tested low compression on that scoot and did a new ring/ piston and cylinder head. I still had bad compression. Turns out the guage was bad. It ended up being a bad carburetor. I bought the second comression guage from harbor freight to discover the first was bad. You get what you pay for.

I just did a compression test and it was only 40 psi. I still have both guages and not sure which one is bad. Now I do not trust either guage. Tomorrow I am going to try them both on my good running Honda and see how they function on it before drawing any conclussions.

[swflcarl]

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp ... ion+tester

I have this gauge.... you can buy it online from Advance (and pickup at store). ~$24 (with 20% online purchase discount) plus NC tax. I buy stuff from Harbor Freight all the time (electric impact & hammer drill) and am happy with these cheap purchases. Looked at their (HF) testers and everyone said they suck - so I spent a few dollars more.

This gauge works great and you will need no adapters.

Sound like you know what you are doing... we just need to get you firing.

Do you have spark outside the case... if you do - then squirt some mix in the spark plug hole. If compression > 110 psi - then you should get some feedback.

[Duosport]

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp ... ion+tester

I have this gauge.... you can buy it online from Advance (and pickup at store). ~$24 (with 20% online purchase discount) plus NC tax. I buy stuff from Harbor Freight all the time (electric impact & hammer drill) and am happy with these cheap purchases. Looked at their (HF) testers and everyone said they suck - so I spent a few dollars more.

This gauge works great and you will need no adapters.

Sound like you know what you are doing... we just need to get you firing.

Do you have spark outside the case... if you do - then squirt some mix in the spark plug hole. If compression > 110 psi - then you should get some feedback.

I checked my compression guages on a good bike for 125 psi and then tested compression on the Elite. I got a reading of 39 psi. So I opened up the top end and it is now pretty clear why I was getting no pop. (sorry camera sucks on close ups).

[Duosport]

So I did not want to spend any money on this scooter. That was my plan. So now I am left trying to mitigate my damages. Should I bother to go further? I supidly ordered the kick start parts last week. So now I need to find any metal in the case and hope there is no damage. I envision a coupe of scenarios now. A. I hone the cylinder and buy a piston ring set and (A1) There is damage else where from the shattered piston or the scratch in the cylinder is too deep to hone resulting in either more money spent or a wate of money spent on the piston etc. or ( A1) That works fine and everything else is OK or B Ifind the cheapest BBK and install it and then (B1) there is damage from the piston fragment and I am even deeper into it or (B2) it works out fine. or C I look for a used original cylinder to replace scratched one. with the same two possible results or D. I quite now before I go any deeper and part out my bike to mitigate my financial investment in this scooter.

Did I mention I am out of work? I cannot waste money at this point. So what is the least expensive after market cylinder kit out there for this scooter?

[Duosport]

So obviously the least expensive thing I can do is hone the cylinder and buy a piston and rings. I see three options on the piston and rings from Honda:

Standard
PISTON (OS 0.25)
PISTON (OS 0.50)

So is the OS meaning over sized? So this is what I would buy if I need to have my cylinder bored out right? What is the cost of having a cylinder bored out? Any ideas?