Best Bang for the Buck, the mods begin

Trying to get your Spree/Elite to run, or run better? Post your questions here.

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alexfleury
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Best Bang for the Buck, the mods begin

Post by alexfleury »

I am a total noobie to scooters, but I have ridden motorcycles for years. I found this TERRIFIC site just after I bought my scooter.

Picked up this 2001 from a motorcycle ridin buddy for $500

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in 12 years?????

Image

I think the scooter is cute but I was disappointed to find that it has very little power. I live on a straight street that is 1/2 mile long and has an even slight incline the whole half mile.
uphill
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downhill
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I did a lot of reading here and asked a lot of dumb questions and everyone was WAY patient and helpful. I found out the first things that you do to a "P" model is to deregulate it. For a variety of sales reasons it came from the factory limited to 25 mph.

You begin with taking off the bodywork and removing the airbox and doing the "airbox mod"

The before pic Image

The after pic Image

I found that my air filter was totally deteriorated. Bet it hadn't been replaced since 2001.

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I didn't want to wait a week for a part. That's what it takes here at my local Honda shop in a small town. So I made a trip to Lowes. This IS NOT the recommended solution but for now I think it will work fine.

Image

So with the air box taken care of, the carb is the next thing to "deregulate" This amounts to removing the stock main jet and replacing it with about an 80 to 88 size jet.

Jet info and more is copied from one of Wheelman's posts (keep in mind the 50p is a #68)

"The Elite 50SR jet is a 78, but remember Honda had to comply with some pretty strict Hydrocarbon Emissions rules back in '94, so it's safe to assume that the Stock jet was actualy pretty skinny. It might run a lot better with an 82 or more. The Secret Code to jetting is 99101-187-0**0. The jet size replaces the stars. Get the 85 and the 88 while you're on the phone if you have the extra $9. Call the Dealer, ax for "Parts Department" and read the number to the Dude. They love when someone knows what he's doing. Deepinnaharta Honda never fails to get my stuff in 2 business days, and shipping is free!

Don't be in a hurry to ditch the stock airbox if you plan to keep it stock-ish. It runs just fine and is safer when you coast down - the small and Fixed Pilot Circuit causes heat spikes when you close the throttle otherwise. Remember to saturate the new filter with OIL, and squeeze it until the drips stop.

Put out a WTB for the SR version of the oil pump and the split throttle cable if you plan to keep it at 49cc. Find the correct SR exhaust or any number of mild exhausts that work with 50ccs, or you can grind out the restricting washer in your headpipe if the muffler is in good shape. This resets your S model to SR form, reliable and durable at 40MPH Plus."

Wheelman is "da man"

I had ridden the bike about 30 miles before I started the mods and I guess the deteriorated air filter was mostly responsible for this mess.

Image

When you begin to do these mods don't be intimidated by the fact that you have to remove the carb. Just take out the two bolts and pull it away from the engine a little way. Just enough to turn it on it's side to remove the two screws from the float bowl and remove the main jet from the bottom of the carb.

Image

I had the part number when I went to the dealer, and I ordered an 85 jet, but no one knew exactly what the jet looked like. The shop guys tried to help me out by loaning me 2 number 80 jets and one 85 just to see if maybe they had one I could use instead of waiting a week.

As my luck would go, none of the 3 jets that they loaned me were the correct type. BUT I tried a 1/32" drill bit and found out it slid easily thru the number 85 jet and would not got thru the stock jet. Interestingly, it would go thru one of the #80 jets and not thru the other one. So I held the drill bit with the forceps and carefully spun the jet in my fingers to drill it out to what is approximately a now #80 jet. Again this IS NOT the recommended way to jet a carb! (but it has been done many many times before) I will replace it with the #85 that I ordered when it comes in a WEEK from now.


Image

The last item in the engine to deregulate is the exhaust.

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That little bitty hole in the middle needs to opened up until it is the same diameter as the rest of the pipe! There is more material there than I thought there would be and it is harder to grind out than I thought it would be. From a pic I saw of another bike, it looked like a washer had been welded into the pipe. My bike is a 2001 and maybe they were making it harder to de-reg by then.

After attacking with a step bit you can see how much metal is welded into the 2001 pipe.

Image

But a little patience and some final grinding with my Dremel tool and I have a nicely ported pipe. The final job is a lot smoother than it looks in this pic.

Image
Last edited by alexfleury on Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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swimmingfree
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Re: Best Bang for the Buck, the mods begin

Post by swimmingfree »

good read so far lots of photo as well ... hope you going to pull the carb and clean the old air filter off the carb if the gunk come off the carb and may stick to the reads and thats not good ...
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Re: Best Bang for the Buck, the mods begin

Post by patthesoundguy »

A step drill will make quick work of that washer ;-) and then some touch up with the dremel after :-D

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alexfleury
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Re: Best Bang for the Buck, the mods begin

Post by alexfleury »

Thanks Pat hadn't thought of that! On my way to Lowes now :-)
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Re: Best Bang for the Buck, the mods begin

Post by LMH »

Thats a good find!
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Re: Best Bang for the Buck, the mods begin

Post by alexfleury »

The batteries are dead on my camera and right now I can't find the charger. But I will post pics later and show that with the above mods and finishing the exhaust I went from 22 mph uphill to 30. Cruises consistently at 32 the top speed was 26 before and hills were a real killer. Now I only notice a slight loss of speed unless it is a big hill! I rode up the steepest hill town to my bud Richard'a house. This was where I had been paddling with my feet to get up the hill before. I topped the hill at just over 10mph. A HUGE difference! But the real difference is in acceleration! It used to take about 150 yards to get 20 mph. Now it will pull 25mph in about 150 FEET. It is a so much stronger now!

You guys will get a real chuckle. After I rode the bike the first time for about 5 minutes when I pulled in the drive way it smelled REALLY hot and smoke was coming from the engine :-( I took a good look and the paint on the exhaust hadn't ever been hot enough to burn in. The bike only had 170 miles on it and with the restricted exhaust there had never been enough heat to even get the pipe hot !

Now on to the area where I am TRULY clueless. I have read that there is a mod that I can do to the stock variator. Something about removing a restrictor plate. I don't care too much about top speed but the way the bike accelerates to 25 I can tell there is some more speed to go after. BUT I want to make sure that I don't lose any ability to climb. I live in VERY hilly country.

One: What can I accomplish with the stock variator mod? Is there a good write up or video on this?

Two: Exactly what parts do I need to do a real variator mod? Where do I order these parts? What will they cost? (I know some of you have told me this before on another thread, but I'm hoping to consolidate everything here and post good pics so the next "nooby" will have everything he needs in one place) :-) And what special tools will I need? What kind of performance increase can I expect? Is there a good video or write-up on this?

Three: I know y'all have told me that I don't need a pipe on 50cc motor but I might WANT one lol. Any info will be appreciated. I'm talking about for a 50cc motor not a bbk. Does anyone know about something like this for an Elite?

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/84625 ... er_90.html

I know it will be just for show, and the performance gain would be very modest. It would still be COOL :-) I think I'd like for my bike to sound like an angry chain saw lol

Seriously guys I need some info and some help on the variator mod.

Thank y'all for the help so far

Alex j_alexfleury@yahoo.com
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Re: Best Bang for the Buck, the mods begin

Post by alexfleury »

This was in a post from Taz

"K first thing is you need to remove the restrictors. 1st restrictor is to remove the muffler and look at the end of the muffler that hooks up to the engine. You will see a washer that has a small hole. You need to remove that. You can use a drill and a dremel to do this.
2nd Restrictor is on the kick starter side. Remove the kick starter and you will see the belt. The part your looking for is in the front behind the belt. When you look at the front where the belt loops around you will see what is called the drive face. Remove that and the belt and the next part you will see is called the variator. Remove that and flip it upside down. You need to remove the restrictor plate. You will need to unbolt the restrictor plate. You still use the ramp plate to hold the rollers in. Im trying to keep this simple."

I wish I had a pic of this but it seems pretty clear. I guess I'll take a look and see if I can understand what's up.
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Re: Best Bang for the Buck, the mods begin

Post by bfowler »

Removing the variator restrictor plate will probably bring you to about 35 closer to 40 mph. And luckily for you, I just started modding my elite today and have pics to help you out. Here's a step by step guide that'll help you out.
Here's the engine sitting.
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Here's it after you remove the left side cover.
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Nows the somewhat difficult part. You have to hold the variator in place while you loosen the nut. If you have an impact wrench then that's the easiest way. I use this tool to hold the stator (on opposite side).
Image
Image
Image
After you get that nut off you'll be able to remove the variator. Here's what it looks like on the engine.
Image
Take it off and flip it around and you'll see the restrictor plate. Remove it and discard.
Image
Then just reinstall and you're good to go!
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Re: Best Bang for the Buck, the mods begin

Post by alexfleury »

COOL thanks!! And I hope this thread is going to be a help to others in the future.

I need another tip. My rear tire is cracked in places. Too Bad the tires have virtually no mileage on them. What is the best "bang for the buck" replacement? What is the best tire regardless of cost?
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Re: Best Bang for the Buck, the mods begin

Post by alexfleury »

http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/mopedtire.html

This looks like a decent tire. It resembles "big bike" tires.
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Re: Best Bang for the Buck, the mods begin

Post by bfowler »

If you're gonna get new tires I'd suggest you get bigger than stock tires since they will add a mph or 2 and it'll be a more stable ride. Get some 90/90-10 tires. Michelin or Pirelli. I went with Michelin since they're cheaper. Bike bandit has them for $25 each
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Re: Best Bang for the Buck, the mods begin

Post by alexfleury »

These are 300X10 Conti and slightly more cost http://www.ronayers.com/Continental-Con ... C6365.aspx

These Kendas are 90x90 and have "big bike" looking tread http://www.ronayers.com/Kenda-K413-Perf ... 29C71.aspx

I just don't care for the look of the Michelin but it might work well in the rain http://www.ronayers.com/9090-10-C13273.asp

The pirellis are cool http://www.ronayers.com/9090-10-C17028.aspx

I wish the conti 90x90 wasn't $45 :-(

I'm leaning toward the Kenda, whadda ya think?
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Re: Best Bang for the Buck, the mods begin

Post by kingearwig »

The variator mod will only improve your top speed and not hurt acceleration. But a larger than stock tire will give you more top speed at the cost of acceleration. The cost is pretty small as the gain is also small but it sounds like you want all the acceleration you can get so would recommend you stick with the stock tire size.
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Re: Best Bang for the Buck, the mods begin

Post by swimmingfree »

i not sure it the variator has grease in it or not but if it dose clean it all out ...as for the tire thing hurting low end your not going to see no different at all on the low end and just a 2 mile or so on the top end ...
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looking for
se50 crank...

SpreJunk 87elite in a spree body
ruckus variator , 3.5 tire , 1500 drive face spring , a 64 bbk ,
8 gram rollers, stock carb , after market air filter and 105 jet
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Re: Best Bang for the Buck, the mods begin

Post by alexfleury »

I see no one either knocked or praised any of the tires that I found. I think I'll order the Kenda's Thanks for the input on the tire sizes!

I ordered the 300X10 Kenda tire and the IRC tubes since the guy at ron Ayers said I didn't really need the heavier duty Kenda tubes that were $12 each. $70 including tax and shipping. That wouldn't even come close to buying one front tire for the Bandit :geekdance:


Also bought the tool to do the variator mod today. Hope to do a "test" run tomorrow and show exactly what I've gained.

Y'all ROCK this would have been nothing but frustration if I hadn't found this site :woot:
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