X wont stay running condition

[TgyroX]

Trying to bring this X back to life. I've put fresh fuel in the tank, cleaned the pickup screen, sediment bowl, installed new fuel lines all the way to the carb. Installed a clear fuel filter, and the lines are clear so i can see fuel. Carb has been removed and cleaned twice. There never was much garbage in it.

It won't start cold without a shot of starting fluid, and WOT.

Once running, it'll rev for a bit but then die out. I have the air box off, and it's just a bare carb at this point. Seems to be starving the motor for fuel even though the lines, and filter are full. Fuel delivery when kicking over and running seems adequate.

Since there is no choke, i used my fingers to choke it. It will stay running only above idle and at higher RPM if i'm using my fingers to choke it. Fingers aren't totally covering it, but maybe 50%. Even choking it like that it will not idle down and stay idling without stalling. It will not restart without either shot of starting fluid or finger choking it for a few kicks.

Compression test shows 100#

Anyone have any thoughts ? I read about another ped that wouldn't run without the airbox. This the case with this engine too ?

[swflcarl]

Get ready for the "don't use starting fluid" on your 2 cycle machine. It will wash your cylinder and accelerate the possible seize. Do you have the air box installed. This is critical. Compression appears to be a touch low.

The system is balanced based on the factory air box. Too much air. Get a stock air box (if possible)... if you don't have you might have trouble finding for the X. Maybe you can make one. It will have to have a small air port opposite a well lubed air filter.

Best of Luck.

[TgyroX]

ok. Thanks Carl. The airbox was my next step figuring it would certainly restrict airflow. I do know about the potential harmful effects of starting fluid on a 2 stroke. Trying to keep that to a minimum. Compression was only 60# when i started with the beast. Glad to see it's come up, even if its low.

[swflcarl]

With the cylinder lubed properly... compression should come up more. Use pre-mix spray in lieu of starting fluid. Do you have the stock box? You might want to put a squirt of 2 cycle oil in the cylinder....

Put in a new NGK plug too... I am just a noob - but the basic have brought back some of the most lost / unloved honda oil burners.

[TgyroX]

Yes, i have the stock air box. The motors been running, the compression test was done after it was running. Running on two stroke injected thru the carb like it normally does. It's lubed properly. It has a new spark plug. What is a squirt of oil going to do ? I'm not after trying to get a higher compression reading. Compression is what it is. My goal is to make it run normally. I think it's getting too much air without the airbox like you suggested. I need to clean them up before i bolt them back in.
That will happen tomorrow.

[noiseguy]

You need a filter element in place with filter box installed on carb for that motor for it to run properly. I assume it's dissolved or missing. If you're using fingers to get it to run you don't have something in place. Fix that before progressing further.

You cleaned the carb, did you ensure all jet passages are open? (there are only 2, not including the bystarter passages)

I always oil the rings on a motor coming out of storage to lube the rings, as a best practice.

100 PSI is within spec.

Don't use starting fluid. Use gas.

[TgyroX]

I guess my original post wasn't clear enough. " I have the air box off, and it's just a bare carb at this point" .......meaning, i have the air box, i've taken it off.

The motor was flooded with 2 stroke oil when i got it. Lets just say the cylinder was well "lubed" at this point.

I did reinstall the airbox tonite although the foam element has disintegrated. I made a new one from a new piece of 7/8" sponge rubber. Pretty much identical to what came out. I have not oiled it yet, but planned to if it worked out.

After the install, the engine fired up and idled on the 3rd kick. I was amazed. It died out after opening the throttle slightly, and then would not idle on its own after that. I tried adjusting the idle, but it seemed to have zero effect.
I will oil the filter next, since i'm sure that will also have an effect. ( i know its there to trap the dirt, but it's not that dirty in my garage sitting still )

This is how it currently is set up. This is all the parts i have for the airbox. Is there anything above this snorkel that i'm missing ?

[swflcarl]

Sounds like your pilot jet is not clear... Look this up. I have posted some Youtube videos under 'oilburner239' that show my struggles with the pilot circuit on an 85 Aero.

Best of luck.

[noiseguy]

Typical Honda scooter filters use 1/2" foam.

Oil the filter, then wring out all the oil you can with dry rags. You don't want too much. Once all that's in place you can at least rule out the airbox. Check the parts fiche at a online parts place to see if you have everything. If there's a connection to carb, filter box with foam element in place, and a cover for the box, you should have everything you need to get it going.

Engines full of oil is somewhat common coming out of storage. You'll foul a plug or two getting it going, so keep some spares. This won't help your getting it running, but only solution is to either pull the jug and drain it, or keep at it getting it running and replacing plugs.

Idle jet's probably still plugged; if so it will idle for about 30 seconds, then shut off and won't restart until cold. If so, need to get that jet cleared.

[TgyroX]

Thanks Jason and Carl. I agree, there's still an issue with my carb., and i think your both onto it. Just like my Wetbikes, the carbs are always the issue when they don't run right. I've gone thru dozens of those so i'll get this one eventually. Now that i have the air box back on it and an oiled filter, it does start up pretty faithfully when cold. Idles we till the bystarter closes off, then it won't idle. I'll tear into the carb again tomorrow and see what i can see with the pilot and main jet. I know they were clear before and i was getting air an carb cleaner to spray out all the ports with compressed air on the last cleaning, but something clearly isn't as open as it should be.

On a side note, i did put a few hot laps in on it today at lunch in front of the house. Sitting on the gas tank i made a few passes and it's starting to come alive now that the air box is on it. Cant wait to take it for a real ride once it's dialed in and wearing its bodywork.

[motormike]

From your description, no doubt about that pilot jet being the item still not flowing enough yet. My personal choice for cleaning carburetors is Berryman's Chem-Dip, then compressed air, then spray-can carb-cleaner to verify all those tiny ports open, more air. I like the success that I've had opening jets with my jet-file assortment tool
>>LINK>> http://www.amazon.com/Carburetor-Cleane ... l+jet+file
<<<< Even after a couple good cleanings, bits starting moving around and the process needs repeating.
Hope you get that speedo drive sorted out too. I've broke them by installing the front wheel just a tad out of alignment with that plastic cog. ... and welcome to the board...

[TgyroX]

I have and use the same tool. It's actually a tip cleaning kit for a oxy/accet. torch. Works great, only there isn't one small enough for the by starter fuel bowl port. I use a strand of wire for that one.

[66SIX]

Hello T gyro ,
I just answered you on my post the one that got away .
And this post answered some of my questions .
I also had problems with my Gyro Up have you tried taking off the line from the engine and sucking on it ?
My problem was it wasn't getting enough fuel and after sucking on the tube it seemed to run better getting more fuel.
As for cleaning the jets next time you pass a music store stop in and ask if they have any old guitar strings in their repair shop, they seem to work quite well .
Still would like to see more photos .

[TgyroX]

SIX, there are some other photos listed in the Scooter Builds thread "Bring this X back to life" i think was the title.

What "line to engine" are you talking about ? The pulse line ? I have replaced all fuel lines on the bike, and it's getting plenty of fuel to idle a 50cc engine. I've taken the fuel line off at the carb while it ran, and it has a good flow.

Since i last posted, i pulled and went thru the carb again. It will now idle "sometimes"

Here's what it will currently do: Cold start - starts after 4-5 kicks, need to have throttle open to get it to run. Have to keep it above idle for 20 seconds or so before it will idle on its own. Once it warms up it will not always idle. Sometimes after a run down the street and back it will idle high enough that the clutch stays engaged and it wants to creep forward. Turning out the idle stop screw will bring it down, but then it will usually die within 5 or so seconds of idling. If i shut it off while it's on that high idle, then restart, the idle is back down to a normal level. Here is a video of it running, tell me what you think. This is one of the few times it will idle and stay idling. Is this too high, too low ?
http://youtu.be/IkbVi8M7uxg

[bradthreee]

Where are you located in CA? Sell it to me, or I'll trade ya something for it