Honda Spree Underpowered after carb rebuild.

[seabass1980]

Hi! Long time lurker, first time poster! I have 2 honda sprees. New to mechanical tinkering...

One of my sprees works beautifully, it hesitates a bit when it is cold, but for the most part its very reliable and starts right up everyday, and gets up to about 26-27mph with me on it (260lb;) and has pleanty of power to keep up with college town traffic.

The second one is the project bike, I bought it not running, it had been siting for 1-2 years, and looked really clean... 4k original miles.

1. The throttle cable was seized. replaces it.
2. The spark plugged looked like *.. dark brown and LOTS of build up grime. replaced that.
3. Pulled the carb. cleaned it (didn't find and magical white lights but later it seems to work anyway)
4. Replaced the Auto choke.
5. Made sure the pet * was working with vacuum.
6. Air box lid had a hole on the edge (melted?!?) used duct tape to patch it up... it seems to be working as i can choke the engine by covering the intake... (working on ordering a new filter and new airbox lid)
7. Replaced battery (though riding the scoot doesn't seem to recharge it)
8. Reinstalled carb
9. Got the scoot started... it kicked of a lot of white smoke from the tail pipe.. but that is probably oil that is burning off and is slowly dissipating.
10. Tuned the carb as best i can... (set idle a little high then adjusted the air screw till wheel stopped) It is bogging down the way my vespa does, or hesitating when the throttle is open...

Now the problems: The revs don't seem to get very high...even at full throttle, and the top speed is about 22-23pm, it is also under powered, and takes a long time to get started from a stop position and takes forever to get up to speed...

I guess the previous owner could have run it without oil and * up the cylinder/piston (hence the gross spark plug)... I assume i should check the compression... I will take it in to a mechanic to ask him to check it... what is a normal reading? do i need to drop the whole engine to replace the cylinder head/piston head? I want to avoid taking off the shock as i don't want to have to buy a spring compressor...

I will post video later...

[patthesoundguy]

Make sure the hole that feeds the bystarter and pilot circuit in the float bowl is clear. Was the new battery charged up before you installed it? If not the scooter won't be able to get it charged up. Is the battery sealed or plain add acid type? How fresh is the fuel maybe it needs to be drained and filed with fresh. And I wouldn't take the scooter to a tech to have it checked. You can check the bore your self in about a half hour. I'm thinking a compression test would tell your story the quickest then if low pull the cylinder head. I bet you have a shinny worn out cylinder.

[seabass1980]

I'm not sure which those two holes are, but all the holes are all clear in the carb (Carb cleaner freely passed through every hole) I even the pulled the old q-tip with toothpaste trick to clean the seat for the float pin...

Battery is new and sealed, i chargerd it up last night on a trickle charger...

Gas is fresh, but i will put freshER gas in it... will premium gas help?

I will read up on pulling out the cylinder head, and i guess i need to start investing in some specialty tools such as a compression tester and ring compressors for the piston?

[patthesoundguy]

That hole is in the float bowl. It feeds both yhe pilot circuit and the bystarter. A compression tester can be borrowed from your local auto parts place for a deposit usually but they only cost around 30$. And you dont need ring compressors cylinder head comes off with 10mm socket and 8mm socket to pull the plastic clover over the cylinder. You can totally do it after cleaning the carb

[seabass1980]

you think i should clean the carb again?

[patthesoundguy]

Maybe double check that hole and make sure it clear. If you are having trouble getting it to idle especially once its warm and if adjusting the idle air mixture doesnt do much that may be your issue. Its a super common issue

[bajack]

10. Tuned the carb as best i can... (set idle a little high then adjusted the air screw till wheel stopped) It is bogging down the way my vespa does, or hesitating when the throttle is open...

Now the problems: The revs don't seem to get very high...even at full throttle, and the top speed is about 22-23pm, it is also under powered, and takes a long time to get started from a stop position and takes forever to get up to speed...

I guess the previous owner could have run it without oil and * up the cylinder/piston (hence the gross spark plug)... I assume i should check the compression... I will take it in to a mechanic to ask him to check it... what is a normal reading? do i need to drop the whole engine to replace the cylinder head/piston head? I want to avoid taking off the shock as i don't want to have to buy a spring compressor...

I will post video later...

adjusted the air screw until, the wheel stopped turning? from what? you turn the idle high then adjust the air screw until you get the highest rpms. if it goes up too high, lower the rpms with the idle stop screw again back to the same high idle.

also keep the screw between 1 1/4 turns and 3 1/4 turns. if, well two things here. 1 if its under or over that, the pilot jets too small. but thats the stock spree carb, so. clean the pilot jet hole out better. try to clean it again. it's too lean, rich if its past those settings on the air or mixture screw.

that amount of turns is so the mixture, at start of giving it gas, isnt too sensitive. thats the adjustment it needs. and the pilot jet, tunes the pilot jet. and the mixture screw, mixes as you just give it gas. doing that little trick right there will let you know if you got the right pilot jet or not too. If,.... you had an adjustable pilot jet. but a spree carb on a spree motor, should tune.

[seabass1980]

the wheel stopped turning

By wheel I meant the rear tire/rim of the scoot... You know if the revs get too high it engages the clutch and "wheel" start spinning....

if it goes up too high, lower the rpms with the idle stop screw again back to the same high idle.

this confused the crap out of me... "same high idle" Does anyone have a link to a youtube video showing how to do this?

also keep the screw between 1 1/4 turns and 3 1/4 turns.

which screw? the air screw? ...or idle screw?

that amount of turns is so the mixture, at start of giving it gas, isnt too sensitive. thats the adjustment it needs. and the pilot jet, tunes the pilot jet. and the mixture screw, mixes as you just give it gas.

UM could you explain this on more time, this was hard to follow....

doing that little trick

Which trick?

Sorry for someone that is new to this stuff I'm having some trouble following your advise...

[bajack]

the wheel stopped turning

By wheel I meant the rear tire/rim of the scoot... You know if the revs get too high it engages the clutch and "wheel" start spinning....

I think you might got this procedure backwards. lets start at step one.

you stated (set idle a little high then adjusted the air screw till wheel stopped) It is bogging down the way my vespa does, or hesitating when the throttle is open...

you use the idle stop or idle rpm screw, same thing, the one that, its' usually, in the middle of the carburetor. on most carburetors. im speaking of most basically these bikes, carburetors, any one that you could come across. they all tune the same pretty much. thats the screw you use to control the rpms with.

the mixture screw, the air screw, you use to control the mixture. and its used to tune, off throttle mixture with. like as soon as you hit your throttle, like as soon as you hear the rpms rev up a little, thats pretty much that screws jetting that it does.
thats what its tuned for.

you set idle rpms, to a high idle rpm, using the idle rpm stop screw. then adjust the mixture screw for the highest idle. If it starts to rev up, the rpms climb up kind of high, use the idle stop rpm screw, again to return back to your base, of a high idle rpm, speed. why? becasue if it climbs crazy, outta control, once its too high up you can not adjust it and tell what your doing anymore. too high rpms. just keep it at your base. of, A high idle rpm speed.

once its set to the highest rpms you get with the mixture screw adjusting it, lower your rpms back down using the idle stop rpm screw, and from there its sort of, you know how that jet adjusts, its for as soon as you hit the throttle. and its an air screw on a spree. so when you open the screw, your leaning it, when your closing it, your richenning the mixture.

the fine tuning comes after. oh yea. and also make sure that screw ends up between 1 1/4 turns out to 3 1/4 turns out. no more no less. it becomes too sensitive and you need to change pilot jets to rejet, or, that would be an adjustable pilot jet carburetor that im talkking about. spree's pilot jet is drilled in the carb. its just a hole in the carburetor, like it's casting. no adjusting the pilot jet or rejetting it. if your too small, best thing to do is just turn that screw in all the way, the mixture screw. the idle screw isnt used to adjust the mixture or to tune the carburetor. its used to contorl the rpms of the motor.

technical video on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVzqqpgviyI

and heres a guy doing it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxpQjDQzX7g

oh yea and also have the bike warmed up before you do this. or the auto choke will be on. and it needs to be warmed up to do it good.

once youve adjusted your mixture screw, ride it, and if you think its not got a good take off, if its cutting out on you, turn the screw in, maybe 1/4 or 1/8 of a turn.

if its boggy on you, then turn the screw out that much.

[patthesoundguy]

The manual has the procedure for setting the idle air mixture it is very quick and and simple. Id check the compression once you have the carb adjusted. That way you dont go trying tons of stuff diagnosing when the compression could be the issue.

[noiseguy]

It sounds like it's running lean, based on description. Do the stuff suggested above... I'd check compression, but lean means an issue with main jet circuit, or trouble with air intake side (air leaks.) I assume you've got a good filter in place, all the o-rings are there on thermal decoupler.

[speedy25]

I did all the things you are doing or about to do, I just did them faster because I am familiar with motorcycle engines and carbs.

Mine ran like crap too, but I already knew thew compression was low. (barely blew my finger off the spark plug hole when cranked) New piston changed that in a BIG way. Then I had to find out the belt was also crap.

Keep at it. You'll have a good running scooter in no time.

-SP

[paulpauly7]

putting your finger on the spark plug hole is NOT a accurate way to check compression 30psi will blow your finger off the hole .

[patthesoundguy]

if your finger doesn't move at all then you really know its cooked lol

[seabass1980]

update!

1. I went through the carb again... still under powered
tried it rich, tried it lean, tried it just right.... still slow here is a video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrJoW_QynLU

2. I pulled the plug: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2K4pZRJNJc

3. wow i have a LOT of gunk in the cylinder... i think someone ran this without an air filter... i did the finger test and there IS compression, but its hard to get your finger in the to create a really strong seal...my local motorcycle shop said they would hav eo charge me for 15-30mins of work to screew in the tester... lame... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qFvLsbBfoA

4. here is a video of the two scoots to show the difference in...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AowtEzh3iA

what next?