Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Got a parts Spree tonight... starts on the first kick, idles right, plenty of get up and go from a standing start, good top speed. I'll test cold start first thing in the morning. I should be able to answer my own questions tomorrow.. also got a fuel valve cover with it as unexpected bonus.

I had a af16 motor that did the same things. I tried everything to get it running and it was spitting back through the carb like that. Turned out to be that the throttle needle that goes down into the main jet was too long. I'm thinking if it doesn't even fire when gas is put staight into the cylinder that it's not getting air. Could have the wrong Venturi/ throttle slide in it

Quit cranking that thing and put a socket on an electric drill and put on flywheel. Remember the engine turns COUNTER CLOCKWISE.

Gearhart.. that is a good suggestion .. much appreciated.

Denmanshaffer.. that is brilliant.. I hadn't thought of that, and that is a very good tip as I can spin the motor faster with a drill than I can with the starter motor. I will experiment with that.

17 mm I think. you can spin it (or have someone else spin it) and put your hand over the intake manifold and see if you have any suction. It should be very noticeable. No suction and you have a leak somewhere. Very rare in my experience with rebuilding two Sprees from barn finds.

Well, Demanshaffer gave me just what I needed. I put the motor up on the bench instead of trying to work on it while it was in the Spree. I had been trying to avoid taking the engine apart as the Spree had only about 850 miles on it, and it was clear to me that nobody had ever been inside of it since it left the factory. As I said before, when I took the head and cylinder off, it was clear the gaskets had been installed by the factory. When I took the flywheel off to look at the right crank seal, it was clear the flywheel had never been off. When I took the intake manifold off to look at the reeds.. same thing.. still had the factory gaskets. It seemed to me that the deeper I went looking for the problem, the more I was spoiling the perfect sealing job that the factory had done. But when I put the engine on the bench and spun it with a drill, I had no suction at the intake manifold, so I decided to remove the left cover to have a look at the left crankshaft seal. Again, the gasket on the belt cover was still factory with no signs of anyone ever being inside of it. The belt was in good shape and had Honda printed on it. When I took off the drive pulley to look at the left crankshaft seal, I found that the seal was completely out of it's seat in the block and was up in the concave part of the back of the drive pulley. I couldn't find any play in the crank bearings, so I just installed a new crank seal, put the drive pulley back on, put the belt cover back on with a new gasket, put the engine in the Spree, bled the oil lines, sucked on the vacuum line to the fuel valve to fill the carb bowl, hit the starter button, and the engine started instantly, seems to idle well, and revs up nicely. I didn't even prime the engine with any fuel.. didn't need to. We had steady rain all day, and so I haven't test driven the Spree yet, but all signs are looking good.. I have no idea what kind of explosion was powerful enough to blow the left seal completely out of the block.. hopefully it won't occur again, but until I put a couple hundred miles on the Spree, I won't declare it fixed. That's the next step as soon as the rain quits..

Greetings:

Following this from the beginning. I knew you'd figure it out. Nice going!

Exercise the same meticulous care putting everything back together and there won't be any more leaks.

So far so good.. cold start perfect, hot start perfect, idle perfect, top speed indicated about 31 on the level, quick off the line, engine hasn't mis-fired once, now about 40 miles on the new rings and left crank seal. Time to post a beauty shot..

Greetings:

Lookin' pretty good for a 30-year-old! Nice work.

motormike.. hope you get yours running too. Let me know if you want me to run any tests on mine.

I did find out what to expect for vacuum pressure at the fuel valve vacuum line fitting on the input pipe on a working Spree, and I should add it to this post. First, here is the gauge I use. I've had it for perhaps 30 years or more:



If anyone wants to get one, it is a RAC 536 90180 and may have been sold by Sun, back in the day.. I can't remember. I do see several for sale right now on eBay. Search for RAC vacuum and fuel, or just go to this link:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=RA ... l&_sacat=0

As you can see, when my gauge is at rest, the needle isn't centered on zero, but rather it is on 1 inch of mercury, but that really doesn't matter to me, and I have never taken the gauge apart to see if I can center it. When I blow on the tube, the needle moves to the area at the bottom of the gauge. When I suck on it, it moves to the top half of the gauge. If you hook the tube to the vacuum fitting on the input pipe on a Spree with no crankshaft seal on the left end of the crankshaft, and then turn the engine over on the starter motor with the spark plug installed, but the coil wire not connected to the spark plug, the needle essentially doesn't move. When you do the same test on a working Spree, again with the sparkplug installed, but the spark coil disconnected, the needle fluctuates rapidly between about 3 inches of mercury and zero as the engine spins. Since the gauge has no provision for saving a maximum reading, it is hard to measure the exact maximum vacuum, but the needle bounces wildly about and the difference between an engine with a well sealed bottom end and one missing a crankshaft seal is obvious. Running this test is a fairly easy, quick and non-destructive way to check if a crank seal is out of place.

Thanks so much for this thread. I'm about convinced I have this exact problem. I've attached a gauge and it doesn't budge when I turn over the engine with the starter motor. I'm ready to pull it apart an inspect the seal, but I want to have tools and parts on hand when I do. I'm having a little trouble nailing that down. Any advice on exact "universal holder" to purchase? And for the seal itself .. unclear to me which one to purchase or a good reputable source.

Also, been looking for a better step-by-step guide on the oil seal replacement, but haven't found it and I'm a bit nervous about the whole operation.