Hard to start elite s

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Chipofsc
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Re: Hard to start elite s

Post by Chipofsc »

I didnÔÇÖt ride it or race the engine to see if it smoked. Just let it idle. I did pinch the oil line off once before and it still smoked when I raced the engine. Thinking about disconnecting the oil line and mixing the fuel to see if it stops smoking.
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Re: Hard to start elite s

Post by Chipofsc »

Leaning the scooter to the right caused the float to stick and flood the carb. It did smoke when I drove it. Really bad. IÔÇÖm going to try premiering one take to see if it help.
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Re: Hard to start elite s

Post by bonesv »

Chipofsc wrote:I didnÔÇÖt ride it or race the engine to see if it smoked. Just let it idle. I did pinch the oil line off once before and it still smoked when I raced the engine. Thinking about disconnecting the oil line and mixing the fuel to see if it stops smoking.
You may want to be sure to loop the oil input hose to the output side and don't leave any air in it. You need a reducer fitting to do this as the 2 hoses are different sizes. ALSO, Plug the oil line going to the carburetor so there is no air leak causing a lean condition and possible engine damage. DO THIS FIRST: If you think you can just ride it around the block a couple times to burn off all the oil in the exhaust pipe, better give it a few miles at wide open throttle just to get it hot enough to burn up the oil but don't switch over to premix until after it's clean and not smoking very much. These scooters will always smoke a little-just a reminder :wink:
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Re: Hard to start elite s

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I used a pinch device to close off the oil going to the carb. Mixed up a gallon of fresh gas with oil just to see if it help. If I still have the smoking problem IÔÇÖll remove the pinch clamp and change the gas back out. Not sure I know what youÔÇÖre talking about. I do see a larger hose coming from the oil tank to the pump and a smaller one going to the carb.
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Re: Hard to start elite s

Post by bonesv »

I was telling you to loop the oil pump lines so there is no air entering the engine thru the oil pump. It will just recirculate the oil it pumps but not allow air into the system (engine). That was only after you have cleaned out the exhaust and you have decided to run premix fuel/oil.
Of course, ultimately you will want to remove the oil pump and use a well-sealed plug made to eliminate the oil pump if you decide go to premix permanently. The reason to eliminate the pump is that it will eventually leak all the oil out of the line into the motor and could be trouble without oil being pumped thru it. I think the jury is still out on that but it's not worth taking chances imo.
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Re: Hard to start elite s

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Ok so I mixed the oil and gas and that fixed the smoking but it still is hard to start if it sits for several days. Leaning it to the side helps but it will start but you can’t give it any throttle. It has to be a fix for this. I tried two different carbs and both do it. Can it be a fuel flow issue. Like a small engine needing a priming button.
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Re: Hard to start elite s

Post by vintagegarage »

I don't accept that mixing the oil and gas fixed the smoking problem. It is possible that just driving the scooter a lot fixed the smoking problem, finally burning a lot of waste oil out of the muffler.

Inspect the tiny hole between the float bowl and the bystarter chamber next to it to make sure it is clear. Test the flow through the hole on the bench by filling the float bowl with gasoline, and watching how long it takes for the level of gasoline in the bystarter chamber to reach the same level as in the float bowl. it should only take a few seconds. If the hole is clear, as a test only, run two thicknesses of air filter foam in the air cleaner box and see if it makes a difference in your cold starting after sitting a few days.

Also block off the second hole in your airbox cover, and go back to having the stock setup, i.e. one square hole. That in itself may make a big difference to your cold starting problem, and probably won't make any difference to your top speed. It would be great if you could prove or disprove that.
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Re: Hard to start elite s

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Thanks I’ll try that. I did soak the carb overnight and used compressed air to blow it clean. Far as the smoking the oil the previous owner gave me was Honda oil and it was almost clear. When I drained the oil in the tank it was dark blue or green. Not what he gave me. I used Lucas two cycle oil that said low smoke. I have filled the tank back with the Honda line oil but have not connected it back yet. Soon as I run out of gas I’m going back to the pump and trying the injector system again.
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Re: Hard to start elite s

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Chipofsc wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:54 am Thanks I’ll try that. I did soak the carb overnight and used compressed air to blow it clean. Far as the smoking the oil the previous owner gave me was Honda oil and it was almost clear. When I drained the oil in the tank it was dark blue or green. Not what he gave me. I used Lucas two cycle oil that said low smoke. I have filled the tank back with the Honda line oil but have not connected it back yet. Soon as I run out of gas I’m going back to the pump and trying the injector system again.
Be sure to bleed the oil lines of all the air from the reservoir to the pump, then be sure the pump is primed and bleed all the way to the carburetor or you could have a real problem not getting oil to the motor.
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Re: Hard to start elite s

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Should I connect a vacuum pump on the line to insure I’m getting oil before making the change.
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Re: Hard to start elite s

Post by bonesv »

Chipofsc wrote: Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:00 pm Should I connect a vacuum pump on the line to insure I’m getting oil before making the change.
I never used a vacuum pump to bleed anything so I can not say but I mentioned priming the pump also so figure how that might work. If you have run the motor with oil line disconnected, I assume the oil that was in the pump has been pumped out? Has air gotten into the pump?
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Re: Hard to start elite s

Post by vintagegarage »

Have a look at this topic, and the second to last post on the last page. I think this is the correct method to make sure the oil pump is primed and pumping properly. You basically run the scooter on the centerstand with premix in the tank, and the oil line from the pump going into a graduated cylinder. You can then measure the amount of oil being pumped while the engine is running on premix. Once the pump is confirmed to be operating correctly, you hook up the oil line to the oil fitting on the side of the carb:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12364&start=90
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Re: Hard to start elite s

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I checked the float bowl to make sure the small bowl for the cold start was clear. It was but I did a full clean anyway. I had a new carb from China that didn’t work worth a crap so I stole the electrics and installed on the Honda carb. It started right up but I can’t get oil to flow. I still have premix in the tank and I ran it on the center stand and nothing. I even connected a vacuum pump on the hose to force it but still nothing. I connected it to the carb and taking it for a short ride to see if it will start working again. Any suggestions.
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Re: Hard to start elite s

Post by vintagegarage »

The oil flow from the pump will be tiny when it is working right.. just a drop now and then. When you remove the hose from the tank where it goes into the pump, oil should flow rather quickly (fast enough to make a mess) by gravity and there should be no bubbles. If it does, hook the line back up to the pump and run another test. After 10 minutes of idling the pump should fill about about 1/6 of a teaspoon... i.e about 1 cc if I have the math right.. a tiny amount. If after 10 minutes, and you see no oil in the teaspoon, then I would think the pump is shot, or someone removed the gear or modified something.. have no idea at that point. I have never seen one that didn't pump... maybe bones has an idea..
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Re: Hard to start elite s

Post by Chipofsc »

It worked before I disconnected it to run a test. It always leaked a little when I removed it from the carb. I’ll try removing the hose from the pump and check for bubbles.
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