Front tire tilted toward left fork

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Sevyndaze
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Re: Front tire tilted toward left fork

Post by Sevyndaze »

Not sure if you meant the floor of the scoot or the floor of my deck but yes, both are level. Those are aftermarket shocks that I put on, the stock ones were worn and super soft. These are stiffer and about .25" longer than the stock ones. The forks are standard elite forks as far as I know.
2001 Elite S (Derestricted)
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bonesv
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Re: Front tire tilted toward left fork

Post by bonesv »

Since you have confirmed that the floor is level and the scooter is level, place the level along side of the forks and the neck of the frame and see if the plumb vial reads plumb.
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Meatball
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Re: Front tire tilted toward left fork

Post by Meatball »

Nothing is more rare than a man who knows the difference between “level” and “plumb”....listen to that man!

Maybe its a bearing issue in your wheel?
Not fully seated?
Replaced with incorrect?
Missing internal bearing spacer?

Just taking a stab here. Still makes more sense that the stem (and possibly down tube) is tweaked.
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Re: Front tire tilted toward left fork

Post by Sevyndaze »

Luckily, I know the difference too :-). I’ll check the stem and forks for plumb at the first opportunity, though it will likely have to wait until this weekend. I may invest in one of those magnetic protractors since I’ve been wanting one anyway. I know something’s definitely up with the forks since they do not measure parallel.

Since I have the front wheel/shocks and all that off, all of it including the pivot arms, axle, bearings, and bushings will also be getting a thorough inspection.
2001 Elite S (Derestricted)
Arrow Exhaust
Polini Variator
6.9g rollers
ZX Trans
1.5k Contra, 4k shoe springs
16/42 Gears
Sevyndaze
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:43 pm
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Re: Front tire tilted toward left fork

Post by Sevyndaze »

One additional question: I am assuming that the left fork (if you are riding it) is bent outward from center by about 5-6mm. I will of course measure and confirm, but if my assumption is correct and I attempt to straighten it, should I remove the entire stem/fork piece from the scoot? It would be easier to leave it in but I am concerned I might damage the steering bearings by applying the force necessary to straighten the fork.
2001 Elite S (Derestricted)
Arrow Exhaust
Polini Variator
6.9g rollers
ZX Trans
1.5k Contra, 4k shoe springs
16/42 Gears
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Meatball
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Re: Front tire tilted toward left fork

Post by Meatball »

Id be more concerned about damage to the frame with such forces. Second concern (if the re-bend is sucessful) would be the integrity at the weld point of the stem. If you lived closeby Seattle, Id just GIVE you a stem to swap in.
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Re: Front tire tilted toward left fork

Post by Sevyndaze »

I went through everything on the front end this afternoon. The axle is straight, the wheel bearings feel good and appear seated properly, the shocks are the same length eye-to-eye, the shock and pivot arm bushings look good, the pivot arms show no signs of damage, the brake assembly looks good and the wheel spins true, at least visually.

It's raining right now so I can't get the rest of it out of my shed to see what the front end looks like now or see if the forks/stem are plumb when the frame is level. I will check this when I can, may be Sunday.

This sounds so ridiculous, but here's my plan if it turns out one of the forks is bent:

Strap the frame at the stem to a tree, and strap the handlebars against the same tree to control rotation, which should be minimal if I do the next part right. Cut a vee into a 2x4, cut it in half shortwise, and screw another, longer 2x4 longways (the 2 edge of the 2x4 to the backside of the vee-cut 2x4 on the 4), centered on the vee, to control bending. The other side of the vee would be on the other side of the forks, and screwed together with a gap in between, acting as a clamp over as much length of the fork as possible. That should give me enough leverage to bend the fork back (assuming it is actually bent), while putting minimal torsion on the stem and not risking bending the other fork inwards.

It's such a small amount of movement (about 0.25" at the beginning of the box end) that I don't think the force applied would affect the weld or induce metal fatigue, but I do plan to wire wheel the area around the weld and inspect for cracks and any possible weak spots.

I know I'm kind of in no-man's-land with this one, but I figure it's worth a try before replacing the stem. Plus, if this doesn't fix the problem, it may be that the forks are bent relative to the stem, or the frame is bent at/along the single tube that connects to the stem, though the latter seems unlikely.
2001 Elite S (Derestricted)
Arrow Exhaust
Polini Variator
6.9g rollers
ZX Trans
1.5k Contra, 4k shoe springs
16/42 Gears
Sevyndaze
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Re: Front tire tilted toward left fork

Post by Sevyndaze »

Another "last" (but probably not) question to Elite owners: Does your front axle have any exposed threads after the axle nut is tightened to spec?
2001 Elite S (Derestricted)
Arrow Exhaust
Polini Variator
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ZX Trans
1.5k Contra, 4k shoe springs
16/42 Gears
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Re: Front tire tilted toward left fork

Post by Meatball »

From the tip of axle to the furthest out ridge of the nut, the mic says about 5.5mm.

The axle spacer should be about 32.2mm. Measure yours.
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Re: Front tire tilted toward left fork

Post by Meatball »

Thinking: if you bend/spread the forks to parallel then torque it all back together using the same components (rim, brake hub, axle spacer, etc..) wouldnt it just squeeze the forks right back to un-parallel? Seems as if you change the fork-to-fork distance, youd need to also change the spacer length to keep it there.
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Re: Front tire tilted toward left fork

Post by Sevyndaze »

Thanks for the pic/measurement. The end of your axle looks different than mine (mine is threaded all the way out), but 5.5mm seems about right for the length protruding from the nut. I'll measure the exposed length and the spacer tomorrow if the weather holds.

My theory, after a careful examination of all of the front wheel/suspension components, is that one of the forks is not parallel to the other/the stem (my suspicion being the left fork since the scoot pulls to the right), and that there is enough play in the pivot arms/shocks/bushings to allow everything to still assemble while not properly aligning the front wheel. I'm thinking that if one fork has been bent, even ever so slightly, that that small amount of "work hardening" in the metal due to the bend would cause the unbent fork to pull towards the bent fork within its fatigue limits when everything is torqued to spec, which would tilt the top of the wheel towards the fork that was not bent.

I could be totally wrong, but at the very least I've now inspected all the front-wheel/suspension components individually, so I can rule them out as a source of misalignment. Either tomorrow or Sunday I'll level out the back end of the frame again and take measurements on the stem and forks and see where I land.
2001 Elite S (Derestricted)
Arrow Exhaust
Polini Variator
6.9g rollers
ZX Trans
1.5k Contra, 4k shoe springs
16/42 Gears
Sevyndaze
Spree
Spree
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:43 pm
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Front tire tilted toward left fork

Post by Sevyndaze »

I carried out my absurdly complicated method this afternoon and I'm happy to report that it worked! My initial measurements were off a bit, when I took some more precise ones using a caliper I actually only needed to move the fork by about 2.5mm, not the 5 or so mm I was thinking before. I assembled the axle, wheel, shocks, and pivot arms, and basically just bent it far enough until the ends of the pivot arms would slip in and out of the box ends of the forks. I probably could have gone just a hair more (maybe another .5mm) as its not 100% straight and wants to turn right, but its not nearly as bad as before.

Also hit a new top speed today: GPS confirmed 42.4 MPH on a flat surface. I'll take it!

Thanks a ton for everyone's help! Next stop...gears and ZX transmission :-D
2001 Elite S (Derestricted)
Arrow Exhaust
Polini Variator
6.9g rollers
ZX Trans
1.5k Contra, 4k shoe springs
16/42 Gears
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