No Power - Need help to get it to turn over.

ferchja · Post by **ferchja** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:23 am

I have read and searched the forums. I have experience in advance mechanics with cars, 2cycle and 4 cycle engines as well as carbs of all sorts.

This is my first attempt at a 2 wheel restore. I have received a 1985 Spree which was recently running. (< 2years) I have worked through the service manual and tested all circuits, switches resistors and so on.

Symptoms, will not show any sign of life with new battery. I have successfully tested the entire electric system per the service manual. All seems perfect. When I turn the key to on, no lights come on. I tested everything I could think of to get at least the system to wake up. I am thinking I have a ground problem or a wire short somewhere.

Any clues? Is there something I can bypass to get it to turn over. I have not tested the starter, but I have tested the starter relay and that did work fine. There has to be a relay (safety of such) I am missing to get it to at least spin. Or be able to see a light on.

Thanks in advance.

Jeremy Ferch

vette76 · Post by **vette76** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:29 pm

ok, check to make sure the batt is charged. if it is there could be a blown fuse. (right side of batt). the brake has to be applied to start bike.

ferchja · Post by **ferchja** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:34 pm

Thanks. I will check to see if that does it. I will report back hopefully later tonight.

EDIT: 30 minutes later. Chased back from the starter to the button. The key was the brakes on and the starter button was fouled. I got it to spin. Now I need to get a spark.

EDIT: 1 hour later. Nothing still at the spark plug. Went back and tested CDI system. 3 things came up.

1) Ignition coil primary coil - test showed no resistence (i.e. infinity) Tested with primary still attached to coil and not attached. Checked wire (black/yellow) for continuity and it passed.

2) Ignition coil secondary coil (without spark plug cap) - showed only 4.16K ohms, spec is 7.4-11k ohms

3) Alternator exciter coil - showed only 684 ohms, spec is 750-1200 ohms. This has me a little less concerned since it is only 10% off. But I could be wrong.

Am I to assume that the coil is bad. Again no spark, with old or new plug.

Any help appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Jeremy

vette76 · Post by **vette76** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:43 pm

if thestarter button was corroded i would clean all wires and inspect them before buying a new coil. check wires around coil, ignition, and kill switch.

ferchja · Post by **ferchja** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 1:31 am

I have just gotten back in the house and the entire thing is disassembled and in a bucket. I can't bust the nut off the neck so the front fork is still attached on the frame. Otherwise all has been disassembled.

I think there is a misprint in the service manual on this forum. The "Ignition coil secondary coil (without spark plug cap)" that it tells you to test for the coil has the "with spark plug cap" spec.

So the coil may be ok. Could the alternator be bad. Prior to it failing I believe the battery died a horrible death. Losing half of the acid/water in 3 of the cells. I think this may have strained the alternator.

I guess it comes down to a few questions.

1) Do alternators go out on these things regularly?

2) Could the CDI be the problem. All the resistences checked out with the wiring (other than being out of spec for the alternator)

3) Are there any good online places to buy parts? (Sorry if this is a noob question, but its late at night and I don't feel like running a search)

Thanks in advance,

Jeremy

darat · Post by **darat** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:51 am

well if ur going to replace the stator my as well change the flywheel to save the time to do it again when that goes.

burnt_toast · Post by **burnt_toast** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:51 pm

to answer an earlier question: to bypass the key ignition, u have to disconnect the key-ignition wires, then take off the case off the main relay (on bottom of seat, right side of gas tank) and press that with your finger, if your battery is good then that should get the alternator going.

vette76 · Post by **vette76** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:51 pm

an wasyier way is to run a hot wire off the batt and probe the red/white wire.

ferchja · Post by **ferchja** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:54 am

Perfect info! The kind of stuff needed to trouble shoot wiring.

Another question, somewhat related.....

What is the start sequence of the spree? For example with the key in the on position I know the tail light is on and the brake light works, and the horn. But what other things should work and at what point? I could turn the bike over with the start button, but the instrument panel led was not lit, the fuel guage worked, headlight was off, no turn signals.

I reviewed the wiring diagram last night and it seemed that all electrical components should have been working once you turned the ignition switch to on. Does the CDI cut power to the accesories until it gets voltage from the alternator?

Again thanks for all the replies. Great help! I will post some pics of the diaster on two wheels once I have spare moment.

Jeremy

I am in the process of assembling the entire guts of the spree on a bench/board to troubleshoot/test before I put everything back in the frame.

vette76 · Post by **vette76** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:21 pm

the headlight and guage light works when its running. the little led is only on if u need oil.

ferchja · Post by **ferchja** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:45 pm

Thanks vette!

How is the headlights and guage lights controled to only light when running. I cannot see that on the electrical schematic. Is there a relay in the speedometer cluster that opens the ground for those items when it senses power (ie. voltage from the alternator)? It sounds like I am being picky, but this helps me try to find wiring issues prior to having to replace all the electrical.

At this point all I know is the ignition switch, brake light, taillight, fuel guage, horn starter and starter relay work. The coil tested and was within spec, so I guess that leaves wiring (which i tested for continuity from end-to-end, as well as resistence per spec) and/or the CDI (not tested at all from the service manual) and/or alternator/stator (this would only be it if there is a short in the windings). The recitifer was tested within spec.

Thanks again

jeremy

vette76 · Post by **vette76** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:15 pm

i believe the headlight is wired directly to the alternator, because if u notice while trying to start it the light will light up just a little bit,u can just barely see it until its fired.

ferchja · Post by **ferchja** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:29 pm

That makes sense. So if the alternator is bad, then the lack of a dim headlight would keep the alternator as a suspect. That would at least rule out the alternator if it was showing some light in the headlight. Then if the alternator is working (not grounding out the charging system) and is really not needed to start/run the engine (with a new battery), it would have to be the CDI/wiring at the CDI.

I think my next step is to put a circuit tester between the CDI and Coil to see if it is sending a signal to spark.

Thanks again for the help vette.

Jeremy

burnt_toast · Post by **burnt_toast** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:19 pm

i gotta say you are really going with the hard route with trying to get your spree to run. for example if you want to check for spark, you can just take the plug out and see if it arcs by touching it to the head.

also im not sure about the initial condition of ur spree, but its much easier to start out by checking basics first (like spark, compression, gaskets...) instead of checking the whole wiring assembly...

vette76 · Post by **vette76** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:42 am

yeah im gonna have to agree. but its to late now. unless u are re wiring/restoring it. it wont hurt and it might be worth it, if u have the time.