No spark - Help

Trying to get your Spree/Elite to run, or run better? Post your questions here.

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ferchja
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No spark - Help

Post by ferchja »

Restoring a 1985 Spree that was sitting for at least 2 years through winters in Wisconsin outside. I have done a full off frame restoration and now am trying to get spark. I have tested every possible resistence per the service manual and from my general engine and small engine repair knowledge know all expected continuities to be good. Bought a used CDI off a working Spree no change.

Starter turns over, brake is on, and the Run switch Black/white lead has been disconnected to rule out the run switch shorting out. Ignition is good tested good.

Questions:

1) Of the things left that I think it could be are as follows
- COil (tested resistence and in spec)
- Pickup (tested resistence and in spec) sanded plate on flywheel to make sure it could be read by pick up
- Alternator (tested resistence and in spec) however on start headlight does not dim, and I also hooked a small amp test light on it and it did not dim light either (at night in pitch black)
Could the flywheel magents be corroded to the point of not producing enough current to get a spark?

2) Is there anything else you would look at or did see when trying to restore a highly rusted sitting spree? I pulled everything off and tested all wires for resistence and continuity.

ANy help greatly appreciated. I have spent about 20+ hours on this to strip off all the age, repaint, rebuild carb and jug that I want spark

Jeremy
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vette76
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Post by vette76 »

i would check all ignition connections again. try connecting kill switch. then try fly wheel.
00' sa-50 slammed and stretched
89' elite sb, with a 99' af16, (SOLD)
87' spree (SOLD
87' mustang gt vert kenne bell, irs.
90' mustang notch turbo drag car
12' wrx
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vette76
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Post by vette76 »

just for the * of it swap the 2 coil wires. if that doesnt work take a test light, put the clip on the+ side of batt and probe the 2 wires on coil. they should light up. (regestering ground) if they dont, then trace the wires back and find the fault.
00' sa-50 slammed and stretched
89' elite sb, with a 99' af16, (SOLD)
87' spree (SOLD
87' mustang gt vert kenne bell, irs.
90' mustang notch turbo drag car
12' wrx
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ferchja
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Post by ferchja »

Test light on the two coil wires both lit up. So that is registering. I pulled the flywheel and cleaned the magnets and lamanites on the alternator. The resistence on the alternator is registering 770 within spec. The pulse is registering 151 (also in spec). I know the rectifier is for charging, but would that cause the alternator not to produce the voltage needed to charge the coil?

I bypassed the alternator and hooked a wire to the yellow wire to power the accessories and they all worked (the flasher is a little slow from age, but everything seemed in good working order including all speedometer lights and such)

I will try switching the coil wires and try again, I will try a used rectifier that I am getting so see if that might solve it.

I do not like giving up on a problem like this, by buying all new electronics and starting from scratch. Everything is working except the spark so I will try again.

I am going to ask some people at the honda dealer that I have been buying parts from. They may have some suggestions. I am stumped. I could rewire a spree blindfolded now.

Jeremy
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ferchja
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Post by ferchja »

Where could I attach the test light to see if the pulse generator is working? or see if the CDI is sending the signal to get the coil to fire?

I need an electrican!!!!!
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vette76
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Post by vette76 »

not sure, but can i ask how u are checking to see if u have spark?
00' sa-50 slammed and stretched
89' elite sb, with a 99' af16, (SOLD)
87' spree (SOLD
87' mustang gt vert kenne bell, irs.
90' mustang notch turbo drag car
12' wrx
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ferchja
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Post by ferchja »

FOUND IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Broken Black/Yellow wire between CDI and Coil
Last edited by ferchja on Mon May 23, 2005 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ferchja
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Post by ferchja »

Vette I will post follow up once I test the repair.

Jeremy

Follow-up:
Connected the wire from the clean break and rechecked all the CDI wire connectivity back to the sources.

No Spark still....I thought for sure that was it. Now will have to go back to the drawing board. Maybe I overlooked another broken wire.

Will keep looking....

Jeremy
Last edited by ferchja on Mon May 23, 2005 1:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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ferchja
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Post by ferchja »

vette76 wrote:not sure, but can i ask how u are checking to see if u have spark?
by grounding the side of the spark plug to the head to see the gap.

Also still no headlight dimming on start....
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ferchja
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Post by ferchja »

Tested pulse generator, put out 3V. Should be Good.

Tested alternator by hooking up Voltmeter to yellow wire and spun flywheel by hand and with starter produced an alternating current on DC of over 12V (will test with AC setting on meter).

Could I have just a very weak battery (borrowing my lawn mower battery, it is only 6 month old and turns over a 12hp 4-stroke with no problems)

Why does the ground on the rectifier lose connectivity (to battery negative wire) when the battery is connected? Disconnect (+) side of battery and the ground has continuity back to the (-) terminal at the battery.
Thanks

Jeremy
Last edited by ferchja on Mon May 23, 2005 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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vette76
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Post by vette76 »

ferchja wrote:
vette76 wrote:not sure, but can i ask how u are checking to see if u have spark?
by grounding the side of the spark plug to the head to see the gap.

Also still no headlight dimming on start....
ok i just wanted to make sure, because so many people dont ground the sparkplug.
00' sa-50 slammed and stretched
89' elite sb, with a 99' af16, (SOLD)
87' spree (SOLD
87' mustang gt vert kenne bell, irs.
90' mustang notch turbo drag car
12' wrx
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No Spark

Post by 91743 »

I have 2 Sprees and they both had bad CDI's NO Spark. the dealer can get them at about $100.00 each. I did all the same things you did with the same results till i went ahead and got a new cdi , then it started right up. Been fine ever since
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ferchja
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Post by ferchja »

Thanks for the replies. I wish there was a way to test the CDI without just buying a new/used one. The store here will likely not take it back if it doesn't solve my problem.

Is there anyone in Southeast Wisconsin that wants to play "swap parts" with their working Spree? I think the only way to diagnosis it without buying all new parts is swap out components one at a time to see what works on a Spree that is running.

I am going to chase the ground lead (at the retifier mounting bolt) to see what is causing that to lose continuity when the battery is hooked up. The wiring diagram has that ground wire going straight to the negaitve terminal with no splices (this seems odd).

EDIT: 5-23-05 11pm Tested ground wire to starter and other wire and they showed no resistence with no power, once you hooked up the battery, the wire (both starter and other ground wire) showed a resistence of 45 Ohms. All other grounds showed no resistence to the same point ( 0 Ohms - point was the ground wire that attaches to the mounting bolt of the rectifier not attached to the scooter). I replaced the smaller wire and that changed the resistence to 23 Ohms with power on (low enough to read continuity as good) My guess is if I replace the Starter wire I will get it to near 0. It seems that I cut the resistence in half. Didn't have a large enough wire to do tonight. Am I wrong to assume that the resistence should be near 0 and that I just have a corroded ground wire(s). I tested the horn ground and ignition ground and they both read 0 Ohms with/out power.

I am going to see if the local shop here will take mercy on me and test my coil. Unless there is an easy way to test to see if the coil will fire?

Thanks for all the replies....I will post one * of follow-up if I can test and find the failure.

Regards,

Jeremy
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Post by noiseguy »

I was going to stay out of this; I haven't had to mess with the wiring on mine, fortunately. Here are my thoughts:

- Spree wiring is notorious for bad grounds and bad connections. Sounds like you've looked at and cleaned all these.
- If your coil resistance is in spec the coil is probably fine. Begging the shop to test it couldn't hurt.
- Jerry knows quite a bit about the wiring on these, but he's been sick. Contact him via email directly and ask him what he thinks.
- My vote is that it's a bad CDI, assuming the rest of the harness has been checked. I'd try to find one you can borrow locally to check. Contact drichardson@core.com for a used one.

Best of luck.
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ferchja
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Post by ferchja »

Sent CDI and coil to Paul Richardson, he will test and let me know if they were working and if not sell me a good used one.

The dealership tested the 2 rectifiers and they were 100% functional. So I am left with the CDI/COIL/STATOR, and last but not least dirty fouled grounds.

I will keep everyone posted.

Jeremy
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