Spree Mystery

[CaptDan]

Hey folks - new here. Been lurking and reading the past several days. Wealth of knowledge about these scoots and I'm hoping you might be able to help me with a few questions.

First, the '84 Spree I just got (nice condition, 1417 miles ) isn't my first two wheeler. I owned a Vespa SS180 30 years ago, got big bike fever, moved up and up (I won't bore you with the litany), then got out of riding altogether. Since then, for mechanical entertainment, I've maintained 'Jeeves' ('52 MGTD) and my boat's old Universal A-Bomb inboard. So I'm well versed in oddball stuff.

Anyhoo, the Spree runs great for about 15 minutes, revs up and quits. Let it sit for 5 minutes, Bam! Bat out of * for 15 more minutes. I suspected ye olde stuck float valve (bike sat for years with crap gas in tank 'n carb), so I pulled the carb, tested the float valve (stuck as suspected) and the metal parts are stewing in a can of carb cleaner for a few days.

Two questions:

1. Despite what the shop manual indicates, my bike doesn't have the type of auto fuel valve shuttof shown in the manual. It's a round unit with only the fuel outlet - no vacuum line. When I pull the fuel hose, gas pees all over the place. Wha's up with that?

2. I'm going to need a new carb gasket kit when I put the carb back together. Any suggestions where I can get one? (I've bookmarked a few parts websites, but I'm open to suggestions.)

3. Should I test that d*** 'autochoke' too? Bike starts immediately when cold, so I doubt that's an issue, but any advice appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any tips. ideas and answers.

Capt Dan

[Clivester]

3. Should I test that d*** 'autochoke' too? Bike starts immediately when cold, so I doubt that's an issue, but any advice appreciated.

Its a "bystarter" rather than automatic choke. Its function is to shut off extra fuel thats shot into the mouth of the carb after the engine has had chance to warm up. Consequently, when its broke the bike usually starts easily but continues to run rich. Its easy to test. Measure how much the needle tip extends from the body, then connect the leads to your battery, wait 10 minutes, then measure again. The unit should get warm and the tip should extend about 3-4mm (sorry, don't have the spec to hand).

I'd put a vacuum petcock on there - I assume your manifold vacuum port has a plug over it?

Good luck!

Clive.

[CaptDan]

Its easy to test. Measure how much the needle tip extends from the body, then connect the leads to your battery, wait 10 minutes, then measure again. The unit should get warm and the tip should extend about 3-4mm (sorry, don't have the spec to hand).

I'd put a vacuum petcock on there - I assume your manifold vacuum port has a plug over it?

Good luck!

Clive.

Thanks, Clive.

I assume the bystarter's leads have quick disconnects - and if so, I suppose they're buried in the harness beneath the left foot panel?

I'll have to check the manual to find the manifold vacuum port. Where's it located? There's a short fuel hose attached to the carb (adjacent to the oil input) that somebody plugged with a screw. Is that a bleeder line?

I just pulled the body panels today, so the bike's guts are still new to me. Bear with me while I get my bearings.

CaptDan

[hondaman]

You should have an oil line which goes from the oil pump to the carburetor. If that line is not there than whoever had it before was running premix in the tank and was bypassing the oil pump. If that line is there than that other hose you are talking about is the drain hose for the carburetor. There should be a little screw above the drain hose on the carb. Turn this screw counterclockwise and gas should come out of it. If you ever get the bike started you better check to see if your oil pump is working. Disconnect oil line from carb end and a few drops of oil should begin to seep out when the engine is running. Do not run your bike for more than 60 seconds if you see no oil coming out. No oil dripping out would mean a bad oil pump which would destroy your engine if not running premix in the gas tank.

[CaptDan]

You should have an oil line which goes from the oil pump to the carburetor. If that line is not there than whoever had it before was running premix in the tank and was bypassing the oil pump. If that line is there than that other hose you are talking about is the drain hose for the carburetor. There should be a little screw above the drain hose on the carb. Turn this screw counterclockwise and gas should come out of it. If you ever get the bike started you better check to see if your oil pump is working. Disconnect oil line from carb end and a few drops of oil should begin to seep out when the engine is running. Do not run your bike for more than 60 seconds if you see no oil coming out. No oil dripping out would mean a bad oil pump which would destroy your engine if not running premix in the gas tank.

I checked the oil pump and it's working fine. Thanks for clearing up the carb drain hose question.

The bike DOES start immediately and runs excellently with full power. I've been able to get myself (192lbs) and the bike up the local steep hills with no problems (except for the expected slow acceleration)- until it quits after 10 minutes or so. There's no excessive smoke, though the sparkplug is a little sooty. I replaced the plug but it's obvious the engine's running rich.

There ARE some P.O. (previous owner) bodges though. An inline fuel filter was added, but whoever did it used ELECTRICAL TAPE instead of hose clamps on the filter barbs. I'm going to replace the fuel line sections and add proper clamps.

I'll test the bystarter next too. It might be the float valve isn't the only culprit here.

Appreciate the help. Thanks!

CaptDan

[Clivester]

I assume the bystarter's leads have quick disconnects - and if so, I suppose they're buried in the harness beneath the left foot panel?

I'll have to check the manual to find the manifold vacuum port. Where's it located? There's a short fuel hose attached to the carb (adjacent to the oil input) that somebody plugged with a screw. Is that a bleeder line?

Just follow the bystater lead. There's a connector about 18" downstream.

Check out noiseguy's post here. There is a picture of a spree manifold with the vacuum connector and oil connector. Also, there's an SB50 manifold, which just has the vacuum connector in case previous owner had swapped it out - possible since your petcock may have been converted to always-on.

http://hondaspree.net/phpBB2/viewtopic. ... a8127c9ab5

PS looks like you're not to far from me. I'm in West Seattle

[CaptDan]

Just follow the bystater lead. There's a connector about 18" downstream.

Check out noiseguy's post here. There is a picture of a spree manifold with the vacuum connector and oil connector. Also, there's an SB50 manifold, which just has the vacuum connector in case previous owner had swapped it out - possible since your petcock may have been converted to always-on.

http://hondaspree.net/phpBB2/viewtopic. ... a8127c9ab5

PS looks like you're not to far from me. I'm in West Seattle

I put the carb back on today. Engine fired immediately. Took it for a short test drive - adjusted the mix/throttle screws. I stopped the engine momentarily then tried to start it again. No crank - battery LOW.

Also - in my stupidity - I lost the bystarter's needle. It's somewhere on my garage floor, but I'm betting it's history. I ran the engine without it, but it looks like I'm going to need a whole new assembly. I hate when that happens.

Yeah, I'm in Issaquah - not very far at all.

CaptDan

[Diesel Spree]

mine has no bystarer needle and it works fine u dont need the bystarter
and the fuel filter is supposed to be there and u dont need a new carb. gasket if it is already in good condition

good luck

[CaptDan]

mine has no bystarer needle and it works fine u dont need the bystarter
and the fuel filter is supposed to be there and u dont need a new carb. gasket if it is already in good condition

good luck

I suspected that. But I'm wondering if a non-functioning bystarter would affect cold weather (<>40 degree) performance. I'll leave it as is for awhile then worry about it later. Thanks for the tip.

I checked the O-rings after bathing the carb in cleaner overnight. I didn't notice any deterioration. Probably Neoprene can withstand the cleaner better than rubber or plastic. So I just reassembled the carb, added new fuel line and filter.

Regarding the dead battery: the PO claimed the battery's 'new.' I wonder how it went dead so fast - maybe not enough charging time with the engine running? I guess I need to trickle charge it for a few days.

Thanks.

CaptDan

[mousewheels]

It's not so much that the bystarter is non-functional, in fact with the missing needle, it is closer to always being in the enrichen mode. However, to compensate for this once your scooter warms up, you may end up turning in your idle mixture screw. That would lean out the cold engine performance a bit, but the Seattle area, it might not be too bad.

Re - dead battery: Trickle charge would be good. If you have a voltmeter, check the battery voltage at rest and after the engine is running. Should go up some with it running, if not, goose the throttle and see if it goes up. If not, suspect the regulator, unless your headlight doesn't work too -> check the stator.

BTW - Good to see another local scooter member. I am even closer to you than Clivester. I work in Redmond and if you end up wanting to try out a working regulator, I'd be happy to loan you one.

[Clivester]

I suspected that. But I'm wondering if a non-functioning bystarter would affect cold weather (<>40 degree) performance. I'll leave it as is for awhile then worry about it later. Thanks for the tip.

You should be fine to leave it a while. If anything, it will be better in cold weather. Your engine will just be running richer. Safer to have engine run too rich than too lean!

Just make sure you put the bystarter back on the carb.

Hey Mousewheels, CaptDan, maybe we should take a ride together some time

Clive.

[mousewheels]

[quote]Hey Mousewheels, CaptDan, maybe we should take a ride together some time Wink [/quote]

Sure, can haul the scooter over to West Seattle. CaptDan there's room for yours too.

[CaptDan]

Hey Mousewheels, CaptDan, maybe we should take a ride together some time Wink

Sure, can haul the scooter over to West Seattle. CaptDan there's room for yours too.

Sounds like fun. I'd like to do that as soon as my work schedule allows.

I'm in the final phase of summer 'hellweek.' Looking forward to having more weekend/free time - with hopefully - cooperative weather after that.

Maybe we should exchange numbers back channel.

CaptDan

[PimpinSpree]

i used to not believe in the bystarter, but now im a firm believer in it


everything just seems to be unreliable without it

your problem has to be the carb though, although you say it only needs to sit a few minutes before it will run good again. Doesn't sound like enough time to cool off much

[vinnie]

My spree has no bystarter needle either, so I am guessing it's running rich as well. What's the consequences for this?