84 Spree won't start

[bidroc]

I bought this 84 Spree "Iowa" a few weeks ago. I got it started and it sputtered on acceleration. Had it running a few times but then it just stopped and couldn't get it started again. I changed the spark plug, CDI, Spark plug wire and coil, cleaned the carb out (but didn't spend much time on it). Its electric start only and cranks but still no start. One of the electrical wires on the black (bystarter?) thing that goes into the carb, has torn off. But when I try to reconnect it while cranking, still not starting.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[CaptDan]

I bought this 84 Spree "Iowa" a few weeks ago. I got it started and it sputtered on acceleration. Had it running a few times but then it just stopped and couldn't get it started again. I changed the spark plug, CDI, Spark plug wire and coil, cleaned the carb out (but didn't spend much time on it). Its electric start only and cranks but still no start. One of the electrical wires on the black (bystarter?) thing that goes into the carb, has torn off. But when I try to reconnect it while cranking, still not starting.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Your ByFarter(tm) is likely malfunctioning. Hence, the enrichening circuit HondaSan devised into the carb design ain't workin'.

Try this:

1. Seat the MIXTURE SCREW (smaller screw above the idle screw) in ALL the way. Don't over-tighten.

2. Start bike. If at first you don't succeed; wait a moment then re-try.

3. If bike starts, it'll stumble and likely die. Return that MIXTURE SCREW to its correct setting: 1 5/8 turns out.

4. Try starting again. If bike starts, let it warm up.

5. Repair ByFarter(tm) or replace with a FACTORY CORRRECT Spree model.

PS: You should clean that carb again; soak the sh*t out of it in a can of Gunk(tm) carb cleaner. Remove gaskets before bathing. Experts (and I'm not one) agree: 94.5% of all Spree engine problems are due to stankin' carbs.

Also - invest in a new air filter (<>$6). Spree motors suck - and by that I mean - they're happiest sucking air through the right air filters.

Hope this helps.

CaptDan>

[bidroc]

Thanks for all your help. By the way, nice Spree picture! Is that an 84? Looks just like mine!

Anyway, I cleaned out the carb. I didn't soak it but used carb cleaner and drenched it, blowing air and drying all the holes. I put it all back together and put fresh gas in it. Still won't start. Its really boggling me cause I had it started 3 weeks ago, when I bought it and had the old spark plug, dirty carb, etc.

But I am wondering if its because I took the air filter out to look at it and didn't re-oil it?!?

So I guess, next step is to get a new byfarter.

Also, what should the spark plug be gapped at?

Any more help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[bidroc]

How tight should the float screw on the carb be?

[Kenny_McCormic]

Snug enough not to rattle out, but not so tight you ruin the soft threads.

[CaptDan]

Thanks for all your help. By the way, nice Spree picture! Is that an 84? Looks just like mine!

Anyway, I cleaned out the carb. I didn't soak it but used carb cleaner and drenched it, blowing air and drying all the holes. I put it all back together and put fresh gas in it. Still won't start. Its really boggling me cause I had it started 3 weeks ago, when I bought it and had the old spark plug, dirty carb, etc.

But I am wondering if its because I took the air filter out to look at it and didn't re-oil it?!?

So I guess, next step is to get a new byfarter.

Also, what should the spark plug be gapped at?

Any more help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Thanks. Yeah that's Pasquale - my '84. For what it's worth, I had similar issues as you do - most all of 'em carb/bypharter related. The initial problem was a stuck float valve - causing the bike to crap out continually.

However, the 'emulsion tubes' inside the jets have tiny, tiny venturi holes in 'em, that can only be cleared out with narrow gauge wire. They can get plugged when old crappy gas is allowed to sit in the carb for months on end. Also, there's a microscopic chamber between the bypharter port and float bowl. Same deal, ya gotta clear that sucker out too.

(There's a great carb cleaning guide in the Tech Docs section. Check it out.)

Finally, I gave up and got a rebuilt carb with a GOOD bypharter. I'm convinced the original carb was buggered somehow by a PO. Gauging by the buggery done on the fuel tap,a shim spring in the bypharter, and stripped threads on the manifold, a previous owner had done some nasty on that motor.

I use a plug gap of about .24-.25, factory recommended NGK.

A final thought: you might try moving the throttle clip to the next notch lower. I get much better WOT performance with mine set that way.

CaptDan>

[jason81]

I had a previously great running Spree in storage for a year and it would only crank. I know virtually nothing about scooters or motors in general so read this and tried it.

It took about 10 times of tightening and loosening but it worked and I just took it around the block at 30 mph. * yeah.

[bidroc]

I cleaned the carb better and installed it. I took the bystarter off cause the wire tore off. I sprayed starter fluid into the carb and it starts but accelerates real fast and then shuts off. Does this mean at least that my ignition system is working? Also will these run without a bystarter?

And lastly, is there supposed to be a small spring around the needle of the throttle cable going into the carb? How tight is the TC supposed to be screwed onto the carb?

[dgsoles]

If it starts when you spray fluid into it, then you have 1. Spark and 2. Compression. You are only missing 3. Gasoline. Your carb is still plugged up.

The problem is that your carb isn't clean enough. Follow the carb cleaning section in the tech documents section. And be thorough, don't half-* it. A lot of people like to do that for some reason, and then complain that it still won't start. You have to be able to see light through your idle jet (NOT YOUR MAIN JET, even though you obviously need to see light through that, too...people seem to mix those two up, too).

It accelerated real fast, because when you took your bystarter off, you basically gave it a real big air leak, bypassing the throttle slide, which let the engine rev up. Put the bystarter back on....better yet, reattach the wires to the bystarter (doesn't matter which wire goes where, you're just hooking up a thermal-resistor, current can go either direction). The bystarter isn't there for looks.

One way you can test the bystarter is to hook it up to a 12V source (like your battery or a battery charger), measure the needle's extension away from the bystarter before you hook it up, and then hook it up, wait 5 minutes, and measure it again. It should extend at least a few millimeters....but, get that bystarter working again.

And lastly, the spring is supposed to above the throttle slide and around the throttle cable going into the carb. The actual needle (which actually goes through the main jet and regulates gas flow between 1/4 and 3/4 throttle) does not have a spring around it....that's bad. And, just screw it hand tight, as tight as you can by hand, that is. Don't want any air leaks or anything rattling off. But, you don't want it too tight, you will strip the threads on the aluminum carb.

Doug[/quote]

[dgsoles]

I admit, it can actually run without the bystarter hooked up, but it will run like crap. If the bystarter isn't hooked up, it will never close the fuel-enrichment circuit, and the bike will run quite rich. You could take the bystarter out, jam the needle into the bottom to cut off the fuel enrichment, and then seal the hole with something and JB Weld.....but I REALLY hate jury-rigging stuff like that. I feel, if a job's worth doing, you better do it right, or it will break on you in the future, you lazy people.

Doug

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

What do you mean by:

I took the bystarter off cause the wire tore off.

?

If you mean the black thingy and its broken dangling wire is sitting in your underwear drawer, that would explain scooter misbehavior. No amount of carb cleaning will fix a missing bystarter.

There are fuel AND air passages that need to be obstructed by the bystarter assembly - that's why there's an o-ring on it. If you just take it off, those passages are open to the atmosphere, adding air and/or allowing fuel to flow across places the bystarter and needle are intended to block.

If it's installed but not working (due to the broken connection) you bike will constantly be "Enriched", which is the default position of the bystarter device. Fix your connection and test it or just get a new one. Aside from very hard starting, the bike simply can't be made to run correctly with that open hole. It won't run much better (once it warms up) if you install a broken one.

HTH

[bidroc]

So what you guys are saying is that this scooter won't normally start with a bad bystarter? If so, this could explain why it didn't run well when I did have it started.

Where can I get a new BS?

[dgsoles]

No, the scooter should start fine with a bad bystarter. It just won't run fine once it warms up. I'm saying your carb is still clogged. These carbs are notorious for being a PITA to get all of the way clean.

[bidroc]

After repeated attempts, still cannot get this thing started! I guess my next step is a rebuilt carb. It cranks over ok but will only start if I put starter fluid in there. And then it only stays on for 5 seconds and sputters out.

[bidroc]

I might have lost the air mixture screw spring when taking the carb apart. Would this affect starting? Also, would any hardware store have these little springs?