84 Spree Bystarter -- Do I have everything???

muppet · Post by **muppet** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:54 pm

Ok.. i have cleaned the carb a few times on my 1984 Honda Spree.. everytime i do, i feel like I lose a piece of something..

I am having problems with my auto bystarter on my spree... like everyone else, I can start it without the bystarter...

(1) Are there two o-rings? one at the base and one under the top covering?

(2) it seems odd that the spring is connected to a piece of rubber without metal contact... is this correct???

I can forward pics if it helps!!

I love this forum.. thanks to everyone here.
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Post by **noiseguy** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:11 pm

1) No, one o-ring on bottommost ring.
2) No idea. See 1) and check if it works. If not, post pics. The metal clip goes on the top groove, BTW.

muppet · Post by **muppet** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:06 pm

how do i post pictures?

vette76 · Post by **vette76** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:19 pm

imageshack.net

muppet · Post by **muppet** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:29 pm

here's the pictures...

Davcon · Post by **Davcon** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:40 pm

It looks OK. Now, if you would be so kind as to measure the length of that brass needle, you can help me out a bunch.

vette76 · Post by **vette76** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:43 pm

cant really tell from the pic, but do u have the o ring on the top, or bottom notch?

muppet · Post by **muppet** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:02 pm

bottom

vette76 · Post by **vette76** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:05 pm

ok. just making sure. it looks fine to me. maby wiring?

Post by **noiseguy** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:52 pm

OK, there are 2 grooves. From the bottom: 1st gets the O-ring, second gets nothing. The metal clip goes on the next surface up, not in the second groove. Common mistake.

My bystarter doesn't fall apart like that, but I've heard this is common. What's going on with your scoot? Are you positive your idle jet's clear?

ferchja · Post by **ferchja** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:15 pm

Here is something from a website that is a perfect explanation....

Aero 125, Elite 80/125/150/250, Helix bystarter (choke)

These models use an electric "choke". It's not a standard choke, in the sense that it doesn't choke off the flow of air (and make the fuel/air ratio richer). It is a device that shuts off the flow of air to the starting circuit as the scooter warms up. The bystarter is a small, black cylindrical device with two wires coming out of it. When the engine is running, 12V are applied to these wires. Over about 10 minutes or so, the bystarter warms up as the enging warms up. There is some wax in the bystarter (believe it or not) that is heated by a small heater. It expands, and extends the bystarter needle about 1/8". This is enough to close off the starting circuit.

After a number of years, the device builds up electrical resistance and it doesn't do its job any more. A new bystarter has a resistance of about 4 ohms. When resistance builds to over 10 ohms, it should be replaced.

To check for proper bystarter function, There is a complex test in the service manual that can be performed, but there is a simple test that works almost as well. Remove the bystarter and examine it. Are the wires in good shape? Is the needle in good shape? Nothing looks broken? Hook up a 12V source to the two wires. After about 10 mintues, the bystarter should become warm, and extend the needle 1/8" or so. Measure it with a pair of verneer calipers or whatever you have handy. If it extends properly it's probably ok. The only sure way to tell if it is bad is to do the full test as described in the service manual. This involves removing the carb and leaving the bystarter attached. Draw a vacuum in the starting circuit outlet. There should be little resistance when the bystarer is cold and plenty of resistance when the bystarter has been heated up. A bad bystarter will either not expand properly or not contract properly. Finding replacements can be difficult. The Elite 125 & 150 bystarters can be replaced with one from a '87 Elite 150. Honda still seems to be making these. The cost is around $65. Replacements for the Elite 250 bystarter can be obtained by ordering a Honda Helix part (they essentially share the same engine). The Elite 80, 125/150 and Elite 250 bystarters are not interchangeable, because they are different lengths.

Type bystarter length*, cold bystarter length*, hot
CH80 2.727" 2.902"
CH125/CH150 3.285" 3.442"
CH250/Helix 3.480" 3.652"

*Allow about 0.005" for manufacturing variations.

The wax can go bad causing the bystarter to not seal completely (i.e. retract and/or extend properly. Until someone comes up with a manual choke aftermarket replacement you are stuck buying a good used one or a new one at the dealer. I know vtcycle can get most parts for the Spree either new or used.

smitty · Post by **smitty** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:52 pm

Just got a new one from honda parts in northern Indiana--phone 1-800-828-5498. It cost about $35. of course you got to pay a shipping fee but if you are ordering other parts its fairly reasonable. I.m trying to use their website Servicehonda.com but haven't learned how to get spree parts to come up. Smitty