Bystarter spring location?

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:17 pm

Iv'e had this spree several years and it has run fine. Always started a little hard. Had to use the kick starter when cold. When it starts it just barely runs until it warms up some, then goes great. Went for a ride one day and it ran fine. Came home and shut it down and it has not run since.
Has good spark. I read forums and decided to look at the bystarter. When I pulled it out it has a spring that forces the needle out of the coil area.
So it appears the needle is always seated. I can push the needle into the coil and it springs back. Question. Is this spring supposed to be pushing the needle out like this or did someone who owned it before me assemble it wrong? I could not find a picture in the forums that showed this spring.

Thanx for any help, wayne

vette76 · Post by **vette76** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:20 pm

yes, it is supposed to pust the needle out. try a carb clean.

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:23 pm

Thanx vette I will move on to the carb and see what happens.
Wayne

kwosha · Post by **kwosha** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:17 pm

yeah i was confused by this too. the spring is supposed to push the needle all the way down. but this isn't what really "matters." its the base piece of plactic that all this stuff is attached to that actually moves. on mine, it wasn't retracting all the way when it was cooled so that needle was extended too much and the "choke" (or extra fuel circuit) wasn't working. i ordered a new bystarter off of bikebandit and it works....i.e. the plastic part in the bystarter retracts about 2-3mm more than the broken one

Davcon · Post by **Davcon** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:27 pm

Did the new bystarter come with the brass parts......................needle, barrel. and spring?

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:56 pm

yeah kwosha this spring deal is a little strange. Anyway today i put a vacuum pump and volt ohm meter on it like it says in the manual. It works just like they said it would. So i don't know exactly how it works but it does. I cleaned the carb also. checked the air cleaner foam to make sure it passes air ok. The gas valve works great. got spark. Everything looks great. Except one thing, it won't run. So as i have time I'll move on and keep looking. I'm learning a lot.

kwosha · Post by **kwosha** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:17 am

yeah the bystarter came complete with wires, plastic parts, needle/barrel brass parts attached to plastic via a spring. it was like $40 plus shipping.

as I understand it, they work by some sort of wax inside the plastic expanding and contracting as the engine heats or cools. on mine at least, somehow this process stopped working and the plastic and attached pin and barrel got stuck in the extended position i.e. wouldn't retract when cool.

even though i have a new one, i really, REALLY wish there was a way to make some sort of a manual bystarter... shouldn't be that hard but I think the hardest part would be maintaining the vacuum while having a cable that would move the pin and barrel up and down as needed.

Davcon · Post by **Davcon** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 5:19 pm

Well, I made a manual substitute. But, I didn't think vacuum was necessary until warmed up. Got some other issues (fuel petcock) to deal with, then I'll let you know how it works.

burnt_toast · Post by **burnt_toast** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:00 pm

Davcon wrote:Well, I made a manual substitute. But, I didn't think vacuum was necessary until warmed up. Got some other issues (fuel petcock) to deal with, then I'll let you know how it works.

as a sidenote, if petcock isnt working, best bet is to get a new one. it's almost impossible to fix if diaphram is damaged.

kwosha · Post by **kwosha** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:49 am

dumb question here but what does the petcock valve do?

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:34 am

the petcock valve is on the bottom front of the gas tank. The bottom hose is vacuum from the engine. top is fuel. when the engine is cranking over or running vacuum opens the valve and fuel runs into carb. if you didn't have this valve and your float and needle valve in you carb failed all of the gas in the tank would run out the vent tube on the float bowl onto the ground. fire hazard big time.

Davcon · Post by **Davcon** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:05 am

burnt_toast wrote:

"as a sidenote, if petcock isnt working, best bet is to get a new one. it's almost impossible to fix if diaphram is damaged"

It passes the "vacuum test" and I can hear it open and close when off the tank and operated with a vacuum tester. But it still stops delivering gas while on the scoot, even when vacuum is applied with the tester. Dunno what's up with that, so I'm soaking it a few days in mineral spirits.

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:07 am

I wonder how the diaphram will hold up being soaked in mineral spirits? thats pretty powerful stuff. If the diaphram has a very small crack in it the valve will work under higher vacuum. but under a lower vacuum it will fail.
so if there is a tiny crack in the diaphram it will work but not dependably.
if your vacuum tester has a gauge you should see it stay at a steady pressure for several seconds at least, while the valve is open. My valve will stay open very well at about 5lb of vacuum. need to do a search of the forum for petcock or other name this part is called. lots of info packed in here.

Davcon · Post by **Davcon** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:10 pm

Wayne, maybe you're on to something. I can get the valve to open with slight vacuum...........................it's been holding 5 lbs. since before I logged on the computer and wrote this post. Maybe the valve is OK, and I have some other problem. When the motor is running I can see the scooter run out of gas by seeing the clear filter as it empties with no more gas coming in. And (yep) I have the filter pointing the right direction :) .

vette76 · Post by **vette76** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 3:14 pm

clean the petcock and the tank. could be clogging. try removing the filter