What to do with new (old) scooter before riding?

[Fishman43]

OK, now I know for sure that I am going to show how much I don't know about 2 strokes with this post but this seems like a nice bunch so go easy on me.

I just purchased an '86 Aero last weekend. It was running when I bought it (what a fun test ride!!!), but I have not driven it since bringing it home with the idea that I would like to give it a complete once over before doing so, incase there is any major issues I can prevent. So what should I do, grease, check, inspect and otherwise make sure is safe before this becomes my daily driver to the office? Do these need regular oil changes (I checked the service manual, and the '86 spree owners manual and didn't see how to do an oil change, what type of oil to use, or how much it takes)? I did see in the service manual grease points for a grease gun, so at least I know those parts. Any help is appreciated, I really want to make sure this scoot is in good working order.

Thanks,
Dan

[Lunytune]

OK, now I know for sure that I am going to show how much I don't know about 2 strokes with this post but this seems like a nice bunch so go easy on me.

I just purchased an '86 Aero last weekend. It was running when I bought it (what a fun test ride!!!), but I have not driven it since bringing it home with the idea that I would like to give it a complete once over before doing so, incase there is any major issues I can prevent. So what should I do, grease, check, inspect and otherwise make sure is safe before this becomes my daily driver to the office? Do these need regular oil changes (I checked the service manual, and the '86 spree owners manual and didn't see how to do an oil change, what type of oil to use, or how much it takes)? I did see in the service manual grease points for a grease gun, so at least I know those parts. Any help is appreciated, I really want to make sure this scoot is in good working order.

Thanks,
Dan

Dan, we all gotta start somewhere. I was a professional truck and car mechanic for years in my younger days, but these 2 strokers were a totally new experience when I got into it less than 6 months ago. I knew my theory, but that's about all.

For starters, 2 strokers are totally different than 4 strokers. With 4 strokers, oil and gas are kept separate and with a minimum spray of oil on the cylinder walls to keep rings lubricated, there is no oil in the firing chamber. With two strokers, (old system) the oil is premixed with gas and is everywhere in the system. In fact, the premix serves not only to fire, but also to carry the oil to the bottom end, bearings, etc. So scrap everything you ever learned about engines and study up on 2 strokers. Now then... NEW SYSTEMS have fuel going in raw through the carburetor, and the oil is pumped into the mixture "after" the carburetor. You will probably have an oil reserve next to your fuel tank (I'm not familiar with Aero, so don't know physical locations.) Anyway, keep 2 cycle oil in the reservior. DO NOT USE REGULAR MOTOR OIL. Best bet for newbies is to go to parts store and ask for it, telling them you want "injection oil" not "premix oil". After you've learned, you can buy your oil without advise of the salesman.

So then. No oil change, just put oil in the oil tank, and gas in the gas tank, air in the tires... and ride it. You'll get a feel for it and will discover by experience what it needs.

Next step. Back to the front page of this forum, come down a few lines to Honda Service and Owners Manuals, or click on this link...
http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=11
It will take you to a list of online manuals in PDF format. Study the manual and learn. As time goes on, you'll be a pro at it and advising some other newby.

[Fishman43]

Thanks Luny, this "pup" is learning new tricks every day. Although I think "pup" is more descriptive of me a couple of decades ago!

I went to the parts store last night (Auto Zone, and Kragen?) because the scoot needed a new batery. $70 later #$%&^%#$% (Battery $40, charger $30, who ever heard of a battery that doesn't come charged?) I have the battery, but when I tell them I need 2 stroke injector oil not premix oil they looked at me like I was nuts. You would think on snow mobile country these guys (and one very cute young lady would know what oil I was looking for. So I still have to track down the oil.

What about oil in the transmission case, etc?

Thanks for the link as well, I found the Service manual yesterday and printed it off at the office. Who new, 160 odd pages later the thing was still printing... whoops

Dan

[CaptDan]

"Fishman43"] sayeth:

I went to the parts store last night (Auto Zone, and Kragen?) ..when I tell them I need 2 stroke injector oil not premix oil they looked at me like I was nuts.

AutoZoned
Krackened
PulpBoyz
Shmuck's..................The Evil Alliance of DumDown CarPart Emporiums.

Okay. I'm being mean. But approximately 72.4% of the times I've attempted to do biz at one of those places, I'm met with a low energy desk clerk who's lucky to know the difference between a spark plug and a crescent wrench.

Anyway, I digress. You need to go to a proper motorsickle shoppe, preferably one who purveys in HondaSan sickles. They'll have Honda Gn2 INJECTOR oil - the 'recommended' brew. However, other brands are just as good (in my opinion), including Castrol's 2-Smokin' INJECTOR offering.

As Lunytune sez, be SURE to get INJECTOR oil. Do NOT USE THAT HORRIBLE ACE HARDWARE CHAINSAW LUBE IN YOUR SCOOT!!!!!!!!

There. And excuse my loud, obnoxious voice.

What about oil in the transmission case, etc?

Actually, it's in the 'final drive' - meaning in the rear wheel hub. Check for proper fill according to the manual. Renew with proper grade oil accordingly.

CaptDan>

[Fishman43]

Awesome and consise advice!

Thanks

[Lunytune]

"Fishman43"] There. And excuse my loud, obnoxious voice.
CaptDan>

Don't pay no attention to Dan. He's not really that obnoxious. Shucks, he's helped me a lot.

As per parts houses, what he says is true of most chain stores like Auto Zone and O'Reilly, although sometimes a local store is bought out by a chain and keep the old employees. Makes sense. I'm lucky to have a local owned store with three guys who have been in the business for at least the 25 years I've known them, or more. Plus, the owner is pretty sharp too. They may not be Honda people but they do know mechanics, and do a fair share of small engine work.

There is a chapter on maintenance in the online repair manual. That will tell you what you need to pay attention to. Like I say, in no time you'll be a pro. And most guys in this forum are pretty helpful. Obnoxious? Opinionated more like it.

[Lunytune]

Fishman, I found a couple of links in another thread to very good explanation of the two stroker. Give it a look-see, and see if it helps your understanding.

http://www.southernskies.net/page_info/ ... ngine.html

http://www.oldengineshed.com/twocycthry.html

[Fishman43]

Those links were great. But now a new question comes to mind.

I have seen, and read, the thread on here about opening up the exhaust port on these engines by one ring width. That seems like it would allow the exhaust gasses to escape earlier before maximum detonation forces have been reached. I am no engineer, so I am sure that someone has done the calculations... but again my intuition is getting me into the deep end of the pool before I know how to swim. Can someone explain, in language my dirt working brain can understand?

Thanks

[Lunytune]

Fishman, you're over my head there. I'm no longer a freshman, but I'm not up to 301-401 level either. I'll leave that question for others. This I do know, though not fully skilled at, the muffler is actually a pressure chamber. A free flow will actually hurt performance. So I'll leave that alone until I know more.

[808BMW]

Those links were great. But now a new question comes to mind.

I have seen, and read, the thread on here about opening up the exhaust port on these engines by one ring width. That seems like it would allow the exhaust gasses to escape earlier before maximum detonation forces have been reached. I am no engineer, so I am sure that someone has done the calculations... but again my intuition is getting me into the deep end of the pool before I know how to swim. Can someone explain, in language my dirt working brain can understand?

Thanks

This would kind of be like swapping the exhaust cam on a DOHC engine. In 2 strokes, the placement/size of the ports is effectively the timing of the motor. Bringing the exhaust port up will allow the combustion to exit the cylinder earlier, thus starting the scavenging effect of the motor that much earlier.
Yes, as you thought there will be little less actual combustion time. That's why it is only recommended to go 1 ring unless you know what you are doing. Balancing combustion time/exhaust timing is what adds art to the science.
Just remember that once you grind down that cylinder wall there is no going back. So if you REALLY need to whip out the dremel, just remember "less is more"

[Fishman43]

Thanks, it is a long way off (if ever) that I would try this mod. But looking over the information in the links raised a question, and in my quest to fill my brain up with more knowledge I will never need I asked

But if I ever do decide I am brave enough...

[eliteguy50]

thus starting the scavenging effect of the motor that much earlier

in other words...less low end torque( just moved to a higher rpm range) but higher overall rpms and more hp (what 2 stroke motors are all about). Most 2 strokes rap tight (and get there fast) so the cost/benefit (low end loss/top end gain) works to our favor.

[Lunytune]

thus starting the scavenging effect of the motor that much earlier

in other words...less low end torque( just moved to a higher rpm range) but higher overall rpms and more hp (what 2 stroke motors are all about). Most 2 strokes rap tight (and get there fast) so the cost/benefit (low end loss/top end gain) works to our favor.

Guy, I have no idea how I got credited with that, but I'll take it anyway. Git it while you can. Actually, 808BMW is the one who made the scavenging reference.

We've changed direction of the intended thread but the originator led us into it, so I guess it's okay. Personally, I think I would just as soon leave the exhaust side alone, except maybe for polishing. If that "expansion chamber" is so designed as to "echo" gases back into the firing chamber, to change any part of the dynamics could be detrimental.

Fishman, you started this thread as a totally green newby and now you've led us into deep 401 Physics. What's with you, man!

Enough of this. The little (not so little anymore) bride and I are going to take advantage of the morning cool and take a short trip with camera and lunch basket in tow. Try out my "new" Asian DIO.

[Fishman43]

Yup, we did get off title topic by quite a ways there. Thanks all for the advanced lesson, and letting me know what to do for begining steps.

[Lunytune]

Yup, we did get off title topic by quite a ways there. Thanks all for the advanced lesson, and letting me know what to do for begining steps.

Oh, I wasn't poking at you for jumping thread, but for progressing from Freshman 101 to Senior 401 so rapidly. It was a good exercise though. And I didn't mean leave the subject alone. By all means, continue. It's just that I personally am not ready to tamper with the exhaust.

I'm glad you are learning though. I think the eye opener on the difference between 2 stroke and 4 stroke was most helpful to you.