Spreezilla (campground cruiser)

[Levi]

Gents,
I'm brand new to Honda scooters and the spree. I believe I can make a spree fit my requirements as a camp ground cruiser with minimal effort and associated cost.
My reasoning for choosing a spree is that it's a wonderfully compact little gem and I want to carry it around on the front of my VW westfalia camper. Sort of like this, http://home.earthlink.net/~johndolsen/index.html
I've been lurking around in this forum for a little while and think I'm looking to swap a 89 elite E SA50 in to my new (to me) 85 spree. Now...What do I need to do to gear it down? I mean way down, I don't want to go any faster than 30 Mph. I do, however, want to be able to cruise up some pretty good hills without to much bogging or undo loading of the engine.
Slow and steady is the name of the game. I may want to tote around a pretty girl every now and then also. (Campground speeds, nothing too dangerous)
Cheers,
Levi

[drizzle]

I dont think that an elite E engine is much of an improvement... aren't they the same engine/drivetrain? single speed?

a stock spree won't be going much over 30 anyhow. i'd say just throw on some knobbies and you're good to go.

[odinxxix]

i just might be wrong but isnt the elite e the se50? anyway id just stick with the stock spree motor its going to do around 30 anyway. if anything id just put a set of taz gears into it and call it good.

[drizzle]

that's counter-productive to what he's after, low end power.

[Levi]

It's low end grunt I'm after. Again, I'm brand new to this. I thought the SA50 had a CVT... a CVT or variator and lower gears is what I'm after. Some of these hills are pretty steep and I'm not all that little...

[odinxxix]

sa50 does have a variator but not the elite e right? just keep it stock

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

The original post created some confusion:

and think I'm looking to swap a 89 elite E SA50 in to my new (to me) 85 spree.

The 1989 Elite "E" was the SB50. Completely different critter from the 1989 SA50 Elite. The latter is the variated engine you want, the former is a non-variated descendant of the NQ50 Spree, with marginally better power and no way to downgear. (Though you could conceivably do a "reverse" pulley mod.)

Have a look here for a quick review of this confusing jumble of names and model codes.

The 11.097:1 gearing of the 1989 (Non-"E") Elite will climb your hills easily, especially if you swap to lighter rollers. However there's a bit more involved in bolting it under your Lightweight Spree - engine mount and shock absorber position, to name two challenges. There's nothing you can do to the SB 50 block that can't be done to your stock Spree engine, so why bother?

[Bear45-70]

Want low end grunt for the Spree? Put either the 44 or 48 BBK (the 48 is the best bet) on the stock motor. Keep the stock carb and exhaust with the proper jetting in the carb. You will have all the low end grunt you can ever use and you won't need to fight motor and shock mounts.

[Levi]

Ah HA! Yes, NON-E... Sorry. So the one I'm after is the 89 SA50 from a Non-E elite. Can it be geared down further? What about the NB50? is this also a good platform? As I understand the SA50 has more options for aftermarket goods like big bore kits and pipes.
The little spree 50 simply would not go up the hill last weekend without considable laboring. I'd rather not fry the poor little thing... hince the engine swap.
Not to worried about a little fabrication to make it all play nice. I fancy myself as an excellant fabricator.
Thanks for the link. That's some good stuff!

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

I believe you'll find the stock 11:1 gears sufficiently low for any but Hillclimb slopes. You can go with 7.5-gram rollers to keep the revs high. AFAIK there are no lower-than-stock gears. I suppose one could swap '94-later 12:1 tranny parts but stock with the variator working correctly will climb a lot better than the Spree. Remember the engine is considerably more powerful too. Even with a 44 or 48mm big-bore, the Spree has to start at that tall-ish fixed ratio and doesn't hit its stride until ~10 MPH. The Aero/Elite can keep its revs up as high as you want at any speed, with the right rollers in the Vario.

[Levi]

Thank you so much! This has cleared it up for me. SA50 with lightwieght rollers. Now... to locate the parts! Any body got a lead? I'll post in parts wanted.
Cheers!

[Levi]

Ok, so I picked up a thrashed 87 elite for d*** near nothing... but it's the restricted se50p engine that's in it. So I understand that the muffler is plugged up and the variator has a very limited ramp.
Now then, I'm looking at the variator and it's got a really weak looking ramp...but does it really effect the low speed ratio? I can see that it would serously effect the top end but as for the bottom it looks like it would be nearly the same... I don't care about going fast, just that I have lots of low end grunt. For my application is there any reason to upgrade it to the standard?
Would light wieght rollers still improve the low speed behavour be allowing high revs?
Also, for the muffler... I'm not seeing any washers or other restictions so I'm assuming it's the baffleing in the muffler is playing with the back pressure wave, thus limiting the maximum rpm. I do have two different spree mufflers... The squareish one and the more rounded one. Could I just cut the header off and weld up the spree muffler? Or are the spree mufflers know to be limited???
Any two cents or opinions are most welcome... any fact based wisdom is worshipped.
Cheers

[drizzle]

it's not the muffler itself that is making it slow, it's the head pipe. the head pipe on a non-restricted model gets larger in diameter as it goes towards the muffler. the pipe on the restricted model is the same small size all the way to the muffler. that's what restricts it.

[Levi]

Ah ha! Both of the spree mufflers get fatter about 4-5 inches befor the muffler body. I think there is enough meat to chop off the header on the elite muffler and weld it to the spree muffler just befor it gets bigger... I got nothing to loose so I think I'll try it with the more round muffler. It's allready loose...
Thanks!

[martynkim]

This will open it up properly. http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewto ... =2&t=15091