2000 Honda Elite SA50P - Gear Swap

[shiba]

nope, not a drop of performance....it seems like everything is the exact same, take off and everything...

i'm still using the 9G rollers that were in the OKO kit...

i forgot to get some 7G ones as per wheelman's recomendation.....

i suppose that would be the next thing to try, once i get that washer!! (just to cancel that out of the problem, since i'm not to confident that my sanded one is the best solution)

Thanks again guys!!!

~Shiba

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

I'd mic the metal washer first. Then put the plastic one between two sandpaper blocks and start wringing my hands with glee. Stop when you get the same mic thickness as the metal one. Install.

With a hale-and-hearty stock engine running well and a fresh stock-ish spring, you may need rollers down in the 5.5-7g range. Your bike will approach 50 GPS mph - or 55 on the dirty stinkin' liar speedometer - with little penalty in the acceleration department except for 0-5.

[shiba]

alrighty!

so, i took the trans apart again, just to double check the washers were the same width, they were slightly off, so i sanded down a bit more...now they look even, to the naked eye...

i got 7.5G rollers yesterday. the local shop - idiots. the guy tried to sell me 'universal' rollers, that were 17x13.2mm after explaining to him that they needed to be 16x13 otherwise they wouldnt fit correctly, he could only find one pair, and because they weren't in a box, but rather some factory wrapping that didnt have a name brand he sold them to me for 5$, which was nice...but that was the only pair of marked rollers they had, so i couldnt get anything lower..

but anyways... i took the scooter out for a lil warm up with the 9G rollers, just to get a benchmark....put the 7.5G in and went out...

it did seem much peppier / faster on the acceleration, but the top speed was still rather low (me thinks at least). it would top out at slightly over 35mph maybe 2-3 needle widths past the mark....which to my understanding...is about 35mph because the speedo is really showing faster then actual speed...

i'm going to see if i can find a site that sells cheap (dont care about quality until i hone in the weight that i need) rollers, and maybe get 5G and 6G...

what do you guys think?? still roller tuning to be done, or did i mess something else up that the top speed is still quite low?

thanks
~Shiba

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Hmmm, 35 still sounds pretty slow for your setup. Presuming you have good compression, a clean filter and a fully-derestricted stock muffler, you may still be hanging up on the variator/spring equation and dropping revs before the engine can deliver peak power. It's hard to be sure without those pre-requisites, but 7.5s should be in the ballpark.

[workdog]

Here's a link for a "tuning" set of rollers.
http://www.provoscooter.com/scooters/ru ... x13mm.html
Hope this helps

[shiba]

compression seems good, just checked its at 120psi

air filter looks good, soaked in a bit more oil, just in case.. (also drilled another "path" in the plastic, i dont know how to describe it, but there were like 2 tunnels, and one was blocked, so i punched the plastic out..)

took the muffler off and dremmeled a bit more off, not a whole lot as it was already derestricted, just enough to smooth everything out and make it shiny!

all in all, it seems slightly faster, but like you said, not what it should be... it barley points to the tip of the 'F' for full...which i would assume is still around 35-37ish...

i'll probably order the kit that workdog posted, but from here, what weight should i try next? i have 7.5G all around right now...

and another question. i keep reading that for more top speed and worse acceleration, i would need heavier weights, and for better acceleration and lower top speed i would need lighter weights....it just puzzled me as to why i would need lighter weights then, and not heavier??

i'm not doubting what you guys say by any means, i just got confused....still trying to figure out the whole CVT thing i guess...haha

thanks again guys!!
~Shiba

EDIT: heres some photos of the spark plug, just in case {EDIT: Removed URL; have taken photos down since}

[shiba]

i got the roller kit that workdog sent me...the link at least

so i have tried every roller (not mixing and matching any, just all x gram weights, not 3 x + 3 y, if u get what i mean) except 4G, and 8G

3G = that was fun-ny... accelerated awesome, until it topped out at 15 so i know what you guys are talking about when you say that it doesnt upshift

5G = i could feel it upshift, though the revs were high (i dont have a tach, so i could just tell by ears...if you have a recommendation on how i can get/make a tach, please PM me and let me know!) speed wasent any faster tho, perhaps a bit slower...35ish..

6G = upshift was about normal, maybe a bit more...but not too noticeable... top speed was about 37-8 i'd have to guestimate..

7G = couldnt really tell any difference from when i started with the 7.5G's...

i'm not sure really what to try next...i'm gonna have my friend come over and have him drive with each and see if he is any better..

but i can tell for sure that the top speed def isnt what it should be....

what would you recommend i try next.. new torque spring?? and which kind/rpm, all the important stuff....but most of all, where to get it!

thanks again guys!!

~Shiba

[evilone]

Where are you located? Maybe a forum member could meet up with you and help out.

[shiba]

milwaukee, wi...i go to UWM and live about 10 min away

if anyone wants to come help me, that would be sweet, but i think theres only been one other person in WI, and thats wiguy05, but i don tthink he lives around me for some reason...

any other ideas??

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

You didn't give the setup in your original post, but I'm betting right now that your mileage is pretty high. Over 5,000?

The clue lies in the most recent post:

3G = that was fun-ny... accelerated awesome, until it topped out at 15 so i know what you guys are talking about when you say that it doesnt upshift

5G = i could feel it upshift, though the revs were high (i dont have a tach, so i could just tell by ears...if you have a recommendation on how i can get/make a tach, please PM me and let me know!) speed wasent any faster tho, perhaps a bit slower...35ish..

6G = upshift was about normal, maybe a bit more...but not too noticeable... top speed was about 37-8 i'd have to guestimate..

7G = couldnt really tell any difference from when i started with the 7.5G's...

It sounds to me like your RPM is limited fairly low. The rollers can't spin the variator out to the rim if RPM isn't there. If there's no intake obstruction and the reeds are working correctly, that leaves the exhaust to be suspected. A new pipe or thorough de-carbonization of yours and you should see mid-high 40s, based on my experience with an HSV, 9:1s and an otherwise all-stock Flash III. Confirm my suspicion by marking your Drive Face with a Magic Marker from center to rim and you'll see how high the belt rides. In that setting, the heavier weights might actually see you faster than the light, but it'll be slow getting up to speed.

Google and find TinyTach for one affordable option. I'd get the $65 one if I hadn't already purchased the cheap one.

[shiba]

alright, i know its been a while...i just havent had time, or the weather has been bad, but heres a lil update...

1) i'm a fool and dont have as good a clue to the speedo on the elite, or the speed at which i am generally traveling...

2) i got a trail tech vapor gauge that should be coming this friday, which will be nice

3) i marked the variator ramp plate like you said wheelman, and put in the 7.5G (i've been riding around on 7G) and it looks like the belt is riding all the way up to the edge of the plate (see pictures --> {EDIT: Removed URL, photos no longer available} ) sorry for the bad photos, my friend took his camara back, so i have to use my phone..

i rode around with the 7.5G in (and i'm using my old belt, although its not in terrible shape, it isnt the best, i'm waiting until i get this speed issue figured out before i throw in my new one again) and my cheapo GPS and i could reach speeds of around 40MPH easly (it pointed to where all the lines meet in the 'K' of KPH) with a top speed of about 42mph, although that was with a slight down hill and the wind at my back...

hopefully once i get my trail tech vapor gauge it will help me figure out the exact RPM my engine is going at for each weight i try in the transmission....


any idea where my 8-10MPH are hiding?

thanks again guys!!!

~Shiba

[shiba]

Greetings:
You didn't give the setup in your original post, but I'm betting right now that your mileage is pretty high. Over 5,000?

yep, about 7600miles..just over..almost 7700, i think..

It sounds to me like your RPM is limited fairly low. The rollers can't spin the variator out to the rim if RPM isn't there. If there's no intake obstruction and the reeds are working correctly, that leaves the exhaust to be suspected. A new pipe or thorough de-carbonization of yours and you should see mid-high 40s, based on my experience with an HSV, 9:1s and an otherwise all-stock Flash III. Confirm my suspicion by marking your Drive Face with a Magic Marker from center to rim and you'll see how high the belt rides. In that setting, the heavier weights might actually see you faster than the light, but it'll be slow getting up to speed.

i'm not sure what RPM my engine should be at...but not that i got my trail tech vapor gauge, and installed it...i'll have a much better idea/ way of telling you guys exactly what is going on....

so

7.5G weights were in, and i was driving around and it was maxing out at about 7300RPM, maybe a lil higher at times (when the wind was at my back, or going down hill)

i defiantly went faster then the last time i was out, i almost hit the tip of the 'H' in mph not sure what speed that was tho, as i didnt have my gps, i was just riding around to play with my new gauge!!


so what RPM should i be ideally looking for when i go back and try different combos of weights??

[shiba]

*BUMP*

i also wanna add that i was just driving home, and i'm almost positive i hit my max speed, although i have no clue how fast i was going...

i was already at 'top speed', and then i heard the RPM's drop, and i looked at my tach, and noticed that it was at about 7200rpm, not the 74-7500rpm it is usually at. then i looked at the speedo, and it was on the hump of the 'h' in 'mph', while prior it only ever got to the tip of the 'h'


as i'm still trying to figure out cvt's a little better...did this happen because since i was going down hill the belt was able to ride higher on the ramp side (i think called the drive side) allowing the belt to ride lower on the clutch side(driven side)??

if so how can i remedy this to make it able to do this all the time...

i've been thinking about a new exhaust for next summer since wheelman said it....any thoughts???

thanks!!

[ALOW1]

As Wheelman Ithink it was suggested, I think you should remove the pipe and de-carbonize the pipe.

IE: throw it in a campfire for a few hours. Be careful moving it about in the fire, flames can sometimes shoot out of the ends.

Remove from fire and clean up pipe. Spray a fresh coat of BBQ paint on it. Bolt on and see if you get gains.

[ALOW1]

Wow, sorry for bumping an old post. My bad. lol.