Where do you reccomend i get this from? VTcycles? Does the polini belt help a lot?
Thank you for all of your help
high speed pully kit and gear change
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HondaElite5094
- Noob
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:11 pm
- Location: Appleton, WI
VT Cycles has the speed variator but ebay seller Daywot has them as well for about the same price and shipping is only $3 and you will get it in 2 to 3 days. VT takes longer. Daywot also has gears , bit pricy cuz they are name brand Koso, but hey, I just spent $49 ($29 plus $19 S/H ) from a no name brand china set and its sitting here on my desk as a paper weight. Seller wants me to ship it back to China! Never again, I swear.
Daywot (Patrick) has the gears at $75 but he will probably cut you a deal if you ordewr the speed variator and belt from him. The Polini belt is the best belt you can get. Measure the with of your belt at its widest point, the top. Should be no less than 15mm, get a 6 inch metal scale ruler, or .6 of an inch. mine was just under and worn. This causes excess residual belt dust which can make your kick start stick and clucth and everything else slip. From my experience, I would redo my gearbox , speed variator, belt and gears. The clutch just look at it, clean it with a can of brake cleaner, some 200 grit sandpaper on the bell housing if its rusty or dirty. I bolted my bell housing using a long nut and bolt and bolted it to my drill press, ran it and rubbed the face with some wet/dry 200 sandpaper to smooth and remove the shiny slick surface. Do a gear change, then deciede on a muffler change , then rejet carb, email me and I will show u pics of how to open up the carb airbox ONCE you and the carb rejetted and running right.
Almost forgot Patrick, Daywot is user name on ebay, his email is daywot at aol
Daywot (Patrick) has the gears at $75 but he will probably cut you a deal if you ordewr the speed variator and belt from him. The Polini belt is the best belt you can get. Measure the with of your belt at its widest point, the top. Should be no less than 15mm, get a 6 inch metal scale ruler, or .6 of an inch. mine was just under and worn. This causes excess residual belt dust which can make your kick start stick and clucth and everything else slip. From my experience, I would redo my gearbox , speed variator, belt and gears. The clutch just look at it, clean it with a can of brake cleaner, some 200 grit sandpaper on the bell housing if its rusty or dirty. I bolted my bell housing using a long nut and bolt and bolted it to my drill press, ran it and rubbed the face with some wet/dry 200 sandpaper to smooth and remove the shiny slick surface. Do a gear change, then deciede on a muffler change , then rejet carb, email me and I will show u pics of how to open up the carb airbox ONCE you and the carb rejetted and running right.
Almost forgot Patrick, Daywot is user name on ebay, his email is daywot at aol
Just got my parts in, I will say this about the so called preformance speed variator , its NO different than a stock variator. The only way you can get a speed variator to run your scoot faster is if its a bigger diameter. On the Honda Elite, a larger diameter will NOT fit. I measured it and its the same diameter! As for the angle, same again. Can't have a different angle cuz then the belt won't sit striaght cuz the starter gear drive plate has a different angle.
So, I feel I wasted money. I could have cleaned up my variator, replaced the weights and I would have been at the same point but cheaper. Make the mistake once, not twice. If the variator face is not scared or has a deep grove from the belt, clean it out, replace the wieghts and the 3 plastic guides. The increased 3 to 5 mph is BS, at least on a honda Elite. If it did increase, it only increased cuz the weights were flat spotted. These guys that sell speed parts are BS us into buying parts we really don't need with the promise of more speed.
If you doubt me, PM me ur email and I will send pictures.
Pete
So, I feel I wasted money. I could have cleaned up my variator, replaced the weights and I would have been at the same point but cheaper. Make the mistake once, not twice. If the variator face is not scared or has a deep grove from the belt, clean it out, replace the wieghts and the 3 plastic guides. The increased 3 to 5 mph is BS, at least on a honda Elite. If it did increase, it only increased cuz the weights were flat spotted. These guys that sell speed parts are BS us into buying parts we really don't need with the promise of more speed.
If you doubt me, PM me ur email and I will send pictures.
Pete
ok, New and old variator. Both connected together with the bushing inserted in the middle. Both same diameter which means same top speed. Yes tuning is key but its the rear ramps and weights that "tune" and both can be used on the stock Variator. I see nothing on this NEW Preformance variator that says it will preform better than a stock one.
Next pic shows clearance issues. Yes, I agree, if you can machine it and install a larger Variator then yes, more top speed but say goodby to the electric starter. Both had same distance from case. The preformance weights that came with the Variator were 9 grams, when compared to the Stock oem weights, they were about the same.
Last is a Final drive gear set I purchased from Taiwan, a mistake. Spline gears were not machined correctly, flat. Although it can be pressed fit by hand, I dared not use it as it did not have full teeth contact and would probably fail with use, especially with a big bore kit and the extra power. Lucky for me Daywot had a set of 8:44 to 1 gears, last one as VT was out also, that he sent me really fast!
Final word on Variator, if its not chewed up, clean it good, invest in a new belt and a roller weight set, an extensive one as these things go thru rollers, maybe a rear ramp or two. I think the stock Variator is fine. Extensive "Tuning" is only needed when you modify the engine and change its power output, power curve drastically such as a bore kit, carb etc. Oh, I purchased a Polini Kevlar belt. I did hear afterwards from someone knowledgable that although strong as *, they do tend to eat into the Variators surface more than a stock belt cuz the kevlar is so strong. Maybe I should have just gotten a regular belt but anyway, I guess a Polini will be fine for everyday riding and long life. If I dog it as in racing, I can see it eat the variator, mine will be a commuter so it won't be reved up and down as in racing. Just a thought, in any event, I can always buy a new "Preformance Variator for $45" if the belt does eat it up! Thats me poking fun now as this post stirred the pot a bit! But I think it will be many years before that happens the way I ride.
Next pic shows clearance issues. Yes, I agree, if you can machine it and install a larger Variator then yes, more top speed but say goodby to the electric starter. Both had same distance from case. The preformance weights that came with the Variator were 9 grams, when compared to the Stock oem weights, they were about the same.
Last is a Final drive gear set I purchased from Taiwan, a mistake. Spline gears were not machined correctly, flat. Although it can be pressed fit by hand, I dared not use it as it did not have full teeth contact and would probably fail with use, especially with a big bore kit and the extra power. Lucky for me Daywot had a set of 8:44 to 1 gears, last one as VT was out also, that he sent me really fast!
Final word on Variator, if its not chewed up, clean it good, invest in a new belt and a roller weight set, an extensive one as these things go thru rollers, maybe a rear ramp or two. I think the stock Variator is fine. Extensive "Tuning" is only needed when you modify the engine and change its power output, power curve drastically such as a bore kit, carb etc. Oh, I purchased a Polini Kevlar belt. I did hear afterwards from someone knowledgable that although strong as *, they do tend to eat into the Variators surface more than a stock belt cuz the kevlar is so strong. Maybe I should have just gotten a regular belt but anyway, I guess a Polini will be fine for everyday riding and long life. If I dog it as in racing, I can see it eat the variator, mine will be a commuter so it won't be reved up and down as in racing. Just a thought, in any event, I can always buy a new "Preformance Variator for $45" if the belt does eat it up! Thats me poking fun now as this post stirred the pot a bit! But I think it will be many years before that happens the way I ride.
if you know what much, then you should also know 2 strokes need backpressure. buddy we have been building for much linger, the r1 sucks, its a stock pip with baffles drilled, thats it. you put a prefomance pipe on a stock 50cc, you screwed, you will lean it out, and after all that is done you can only run up to a certain rpm before blowing. the rpm is already reached on a stock unrestricted elite. you need to change the variator or the gears. mainly i would say the gears. so once again, here come your GRAND generalizations.
Yes, I know 2 strokes need back pressure. Yes I know that if you remove a stock muffler with a preformance one you will likely lean out or have the possibilty of leaning out an engine. Thats why I said if I wanted to go a bit faster cheap, I would replace my muffler with a preformance muffler, open up the airbox and change the carbs jet little by little and gears. I am sure the engines TOP rpm is not reached in a stock set up. If it was, it wouldn't run lean with the airbox side cover off.
Yes the R1 is not a true preformance muffler. I never said it was, BUT it preforms better than a stock one, has a larger diameter downpipe and larger mufler area. I can get a good preformance Tuned Pipe muffler dual cone type with the little silencer on top for $100 plus $15 shipping. I want a stock look, hence my R1 choice. I have read from another user that have had both say they felt better torque from the R1 than from their more expensive Preformance race mufflers, torque is what I want as speed I already have more than I will need.
I installed my Polini Corsa kit, drilled the stock jet with a 1 mm drill bit, started it, adjusted the carb, well mostly checked it as only the idle was off by a hair. Ran it with stock muffler and airbox. Then removed the airbox side cover, ran it and it picked up almost 4 mph more. I modified the airbox's inlet little by little making a run after each opening it up a little till I got that 4 mph more with the cover installed. Plug chop on a new plug was perfect. ran smooth.
When I share my opinion, its from what I have personally experienced myself hands on.
Oh yeah, if you read my previous POST as you have done this one, you will see where I stated that it would probably be possible to get more power from a stock SR50 if the muffler was replaced with a preformance muffler , the airbox opened up AND the carb rejetted to the right mixture. I never recommended to just replace the muffler and run with it. The R1 is not stock, its much larger. with a larger diameter downpipe. Correcting your mistakes gets old. R1 is a stock "Type" muffler designedfor larger displacement big bore kits. Its Not a "Tuned" pipe and will not give the increase that a "Tuned" pipe will give but will allow a big bore kit to operate correctly as a 50cc kit would with the smaller muffler. I want a stock looking pipe, why I want the R1 in black.
Yes the R1 is not a true preformance muffler. I never said it was, BUT it preforms better than a stock one, has a larger diameter downpipe and larger mufler area. I can get a good preformance Tuned Pipe muffler dual cone type with the little silencer on top for $100 plus $15 shipping. I want a stock look, hence my R1 choice. I have read from another user that have had both say they felt better torque from the R1 than from their more expensive Preformance race mufflers, torque is what I want as speed I already have more than I will need.
I installed my Polini Corsa kit, drilled the stock jet with a 1 mm drill bit, started it, adjusted the carb, well mostly checked it as only the idle was off by a hair. Ran it with stock muffler and airbox. Then removed the airbox side cover, ran it and it picked up almost 4 mph more. I modified the airbox's inlet little by little making a run after each opening it up a little till I got that 4 mph more with the cover installed. Plug chop on a new plug was perfect. ran smooth.
When I share my opinion, its from what I have personally experienced myself hands on.
Oh yeah, if you read my previous POST as you have done this one, you will see where I stated that it would probably be possible to get more power from a stock SR50 if the muffler was replaced with a preformance muffler , the airbox opened up AND the carb rejetted to the right mixture. I never recommended to just replace the muffler and run with it. The R1 is not stock, its much larger. with a larger diameter downpipe. Correcting your mistakes gets old. R1 is a stock "Type" muffler designedfor larger displacement big bore kits. Its Not a "Tuned" pipe and will not give the increase that a "Tuned" pipe will give but will allow a big bore kit to operate correctly as a 50cc kit would with the smaller muffler. I want a stock looking pipe, why I want the R1 in black.
Last edited by itzmepete on Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Kenny_McCormic
- CBR1000RR
- Posts: 4957
- Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:51 am
- Location: Southern Michigan
-
Kenny_McCormic
- CBR1000RR
- Posts: 4957
- Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:51 am
- Location: Southern Michigan
Well,
Finally got the old 12.2 to 1 final drive gear pressed out and replaced with a new 8:44 to 1 gearset. The local machine shop used a hydraulic press, took bout 10 min and they did it for free!
Cleaned out complete tranny case. Got my New 8:44 to 1 gear set back in, new variator, 9 gram weights, Polini Corsa kit, drilled carb jet with a 1 mm drill bit which leaves you with a # 100 jet. Still using stock muffler, modified airbox by opening it up, I have included pics of the airbox below. Still function as before just let more air into the housing. I basically started by removing the plastic divider in the two air passages, Then added a 3rd square opening on the plastic lip not seen cuz it was removed when I needed still more air to come in. End result is what you see now. It runs the same with the cover off as it did on. Before it ran fine but with the cover off gained 5 mph so thats why I started opening it up little by little.
I used new gear case gasket ALTHOUGH as others have said, if you are careful, you can reuse the old one. The gasket is very think and durable, a little permatex or Indian head gasket coating is ideal, I would not use a silicone forma gasket. I added 3 ounces of oil which is acutally just UNDER the oil fill port. I did not use 10w30 as I am in Florida, hot, plus figured with the new faster gear, 20w50 would hold up better. Popped everything back together. Started it up and went for a ride.
Was easy on it till it warmed up, rode at 25 mph for a few blocks. I noticed right away that with a cracked open throttle and I was doing 25 MPH! Once warmed up, I opened it up a bit and was going over the 35 reading with about a 1/4 travel on the throttle. Stopped and from a stand still I gunned it. First, from a stand still, takeoff is about same or a hair less than stock for the first 5 feet then accells slightly harder than stock gear and stock 50cc for about 2 or 3 seconds and then much harder! Problem is that it keeps accellerating past 35, fuel guage and then dissappears! All smooth and very fast. There is no need that this thing go this fast , its scary BUT it will not only keep up with 45 to 55 mph traffic, you still have power to spare if needed. I have not maxed it out for max speed but will do so after I run a few tanks of gas thru it.
PLEASE REMEMBER THIS, THE BRAKES ON THESE SCOOTERS ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR THESE SPEEDS! Make sure they are in top shape. I know the Jap Dio's have disk brakes. A conversion kit would be ideal and I will look into that when I deal with the new speedo.
Now my assesment. I big bore kit is a must, any brand will do, I prefer steel cylinder. I did reasearch all the different kits. I settled for the Polini Corsa as a steel cylinder is a steel cylinder but not every aluminum piston is the same so with the Polini I felt I had two things.
1 A factory ported Cylinder of the highest quality
2 A high quality piston. Even the piston skirt was machined to improve the boost port. I don't know if other big bore kits have this feature.
I never used the street preformance Reed that came with the polini. Figured I'd save it for a rainy day. Mine works fine, why mess with it now I figured.
A cleaned rebuilt Variator is a MUST. This mean clean it, use new rollers and a NEW belt. I think everyone here knows my OPINION on a so called racing Variator.
Don't make a mistake I made on a cheap taiwan gearset, check the spline carefully for proper fit. The seller told me the spline was correct but made for a Dio gearbox. I am skeptical of his answer but he did refund my money and told me to just keep it. I have no use for it. I guess it can be used but I would have a professional welder lay a few welds on the gear and shaft to make sure the spline doesn't give.
1mm drill bit works great on a carb's stock jet.
With just the polini or any big bore kit and stock gears I won't advise as
1 Engine revs higher with stock gears, Eats ALOT of gas, and you can overheat it easy. I was getting I guess over 85 to 90 mpg stock, swapped the head with the big bore and I could see it eating gas for the little time I test ran it.
2 Yes, with a big bore and stock gears takeoff is unreal but top end only improves by 5 mph, thats it. I dunno, if you were racing some sort of short track, top speed of 35 mph then fine cuz you want neck snapping accelleration. Otherwise, get gears, 8:44 to 1 is perfect. I cant really see using these gears with a stock 50cc. I can't imagine the poor accelleration, the load placed on the motor as the gears would be alot for a stock motor but it can be done and if I had to use a stock 50cc, I would use 9 to 1 instead, stiffer clutch springs and maybe a tad lighter vari weights.
New gears with Big bore slows the engine back down and takes advantage of the big bores extra torque and power. It also brings back the fuel economy. I can't imagine what the fuel economy will be now as it takes very little throttle to get it going to 35/40 mph.
I am very please over all, I could probably replace my clutch springs with a tad stiffer and improve take off but like I said, takes off just like a stocker for the first 5 feet then it zooms! I was doing 45 up a small hill, not so much as hesitated, slowed down or anything. Headwind, not a problem. 35 mph is attained with a mere 1/4 throttle travel!
Gonna go on a 95 mile trip to my friends house, easy 40 mph , open it up a little every now and then as well as shut it down when I stop and take a break. Figure back and forth would be just under 200 miles and a good break in. I am adding 1 ounce of Castro 2 stroke injection oil in the fuel tank till I get some Honda oil. Eventually, once broken in, I will top off the oil tank, mark the full level on the neck with a sharpie marker , run a gallon of gas and then top off the oil again to see how much oil it ate. This way I will know exactly the fuel oil mixture ratio. I do have my oil cable adjusted all the way but not wired open as I don't think all that oil is needed at slow speeds. Plus, I did a chop plug and plug looked great. I hope this helps anyone out there. All that is left for me is a new muffler!
Finally got the old 12.2 to 1 final drive gear pressed out and replaced with a new 8:44 to 1 gearset. The local machine shop used a hydraulic press, took bout 10 min and they did it for free!
Cleaned out complete tranny case. Got my New 8:44 to 1 gear set back in, new variator, 9 gram weights, Polini Corsa kit, drilled carb jet with a 1 mm drill bit which leaves you with a # 100 jet. Still using stock muffler, modified airbox by opening it up, I have included pics of the airbox below. Still function as before just let more air into the housing. I basically started by removing the plastic divider in the two air passages, Then added a 3rd square opening on the plastic lip not seen cuz it was removed when I needed still more air to come in. End result is what you see now. It runs the same with the cover off as it did on. Before it ran fine but with the cover off gained 5 mph so thats why I started opening it up little by little.
I used new gear case gasket ALTHOUGH as others have said, if you are careful, you can reuse the old one. The gasket is very think and durable, a little permatex or Indian head gasket coating is ideal, I would not use a silicone forma gasket. I added 3 ounces of oil which is acutally just UNDER the oil fill port. I did not use 10w30 as I am in Florida, hot, plus figured with the new faster gear, 20w50 would hold up better. Popped everything back together. Started it up and went for a ride.
Was easy on it till it warmed up, rode at 25 mph for a few blocks. I noticed right away that with a cracked open throttle and I was doing 25 MPH! Once warmed up, I opened it up a bit and was going over the 35 reading with about a 1/4 travel on the throttle. Stopped and from a stand still I gunned it. First, from a stand still, takeoff is about same or a hair less than stock for the first 5 feet then accells slightly harder than stock gear and stock 50cc for about 2 or 3 seconds and then much harder! Problem is that it keeps accellerating past 35, fuel guage and then dissappears! All smooth and very fast. There is no need that this thing go this fast , its scary BUT it will not only keep up with 45 to 55 mph traffic, you still have power to spare if needed. I have not maxed it out for max speed but will do so after I run a few tanks of gas thru it.
PLEASE REMEMBER THIS, THE BRAKES ON THESE SCOOTERS ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR THESE SPEEDS! Make sure they are in top shape. I know the Jap Dio's have disk brakes. A conversion kit would be ideal and I will look into that when I deal with the new speedo.
Now my assesment. I big bore kit is a must, any brand will do, I prefer steel cylinder. I did reasearch all the different kits. I settled for the Polini Corsa as a steel cylinder is a steel cylinder but not every aluminum piston is the same so with the Polini I felt I had two things.
1 A factory ported Cylinder of the highest quality
2 A high quality piston. Even the piston skirt was machined to improve the boost port. I don't know if other big bore kits have this feature.
I never used the street preformance Reed that came with the polini. Figured I'd save it for a rainy day. Mine works fine, why mess with it now I figured.
A cleaned rebuilt Variator is a MUST. This mean clean it, use new rollers and a NEW belt. I think everyone here knows my OPINION on a so called racing Variator.
Don't make a mistake I made on a cheap taiwan gearset, check the spline carefully for proper fit. The seller told me the spline was correct but made for a Dio gearbox. I am skeptical of his answer but he did refund my money and told me to just keep it. I have no use for it. I guess it can be used but I would have a professional welder lay a few welds on the gear and shaft to make sure the spline doesn't give.
1mm drill bit works great on a carb's stock jet.
With just the polini or any big bore kit and stock gears I won't advise as
1 Engine revs higher with stock gears, Eats ALOT of gas, and you can overheat it easy. I was getting I guess over 85 to 90 mpg stock, swapped the head with the big bore and I could see it eating gas for the little time I test ran it.
2 Yes, with a big bore and stock gears takeoff is unreal but top end only improves by 5 mph, thats it. I dunno, if you were racing some sort of short track, top speed of 35 mph then fine cuz you want neck snapping accelleration. Otherwise, get gears, 8:44 to 1 is perfect. I cant really see using these gears with a stock 50cc. I can't imagine the poor accelleration, the load placed on the motor as the gears would be alot for a stock motor but it can be done and if I had to use a stock 50cc, I would use 9 to 1 instead, stiffer clutch springs and maybe a tad lighter vari weights.
New gears with Big bore slows the engine back down and takes advantage of the big bores extra torque and power. It also brings back the fuel economy. I can't imagine what the fuel economy will be now as it takes very little throttle to get it going to 35/40 mph.
I am very please over all, I could probably replace my clutch springs with a tad stiffer and improve take off but like I said, takes off just like a stocker for the first 5 feet then it zooms! I was doing 45 up a small hill, not so much as hesitated, slowed down or anything. Headwind, not a problem. 35 mph is attained with a mere 1/4 throttle travel!
Gonna go on a 95 mile trip to my friends house, easy 40 mph , open it up a little every now and then as well as shut it down when I stop and take a break. Figure back and forth would be just under 200 miles and a good break in. I am adding 1 ounce of Castro 2 stroke injection oil in the fuel tank till I get some Honda oil. Eventually, once broken in, I will top off the oil tank, mark the full level on the neck with a sharpie marker , run a gallon of gas and then top off the oil again to see how much oil it ate. This way I will know exactly the fuel oil mixture ratio. I do have my oil cable adjusted all the way but not wired open as I don't think all that oil is needed at slow speeds. Plus, I did a chop plug and plug looked great. I hope this helps anyone out there. All that is left for me is a new muffler!