porting

[happyman]

I have a question about porting the molossi cast cylinder.Can someone tell me exactly what to do to the piston,and cylinder. and the case needs the boost port worked over too i understand. just want to get it right is all, don't want to go overboard and ruin things. i have not seen any spacifics on this. also is the head on this kit good to go as it comes, or do i need to check the compression to make sure all is well.What should the cranking compression be? have a person who is pretty good on the 2t motors and 4t as well as that is what he does for a living. he builds lots of motors for the racers of the dirt bikes and atvs.that alone don't make him good but but he knows how to make them runvery very good. gets machines shipped up to a thousand miles to have him work things over. all i need to do is get him the specss and then make the builds what they need to be in order to get the performance out of them they are capable of.. just would hate to ruin a good build, so i will just install them if i have to with no porting. Have three week to figure it all out as VT Cyles said its going to be three weeks before they get the kits then it will be another week, before i get them. also going to run the 8:44 gears and stock carb and airbox for at least awhile with the r pipe they have if i don't like the way it performs i will get a differant intake and carb andpipe but they said it should run pretty good. around 60mph or so i understand.. thanks Happy

[itzmepete]

Hey happy, I am doing some rework on my 99 elite now. There might be a few things you can do to get a boost in preformance from what I have learned on my experience so far. Rejetting the carb, you will have to find some small drill bits but it should pay off. Porting teh cylinder, yes another good point. I wish I would have taken some close up pics of my Polini that I just got as its ported. A good dremel and a grinding bit will work here, from what I saw, most porting was done on the exhaust and a bit on the piston. I am gonna clean up my cylinder assy that I took off my scooter, hone it, rering it and port the cylinder and exhaust. It will still be 50cc but better than a stock never the less. The piston skirt had a port cut out in the skirt that went up about 1/4 inch and was slightly wider than the boost port on the cylinder. The exhaust was ported almost (about an 1/8 of an inch) to the same diameter to where the gasket flange was and just made larger all the way to the cylinder and then maybe made slightly wider than the stock opening. Thats from what I saw on the polini. I am gonna widen the exhaust port say a 1/8 all, around the cylinder wall and port it all the way to the exhaust and leave about an 1/8 all around the lip. You can place the gasket in the cylinder and mark all the metal that sticks outside the gasket. This is what needs to be removed and just remove smooth it all the way down to the cylinder wall. Then open the opening up a bit, not much on a stock bore and more on a 72cc. But don't work too much up or down, work more sideways as up and down affects timing.

[happyman]

thanks for al the info.. i am not suire what to do to the new molossi build so i am nhaving VT do it all for me.. i may have to have the stock cylinder done by a pro also with a new pison and ring..
i do have lots of little bits for and a pin vise from many many years of dinking wioth jetting for bout 50 years of playing actually 1958 i started to ride andit was a 1947 cushman. y a i can jet a carb and will prolly start it out at around a 97 main and see how it does for heat. then if it need more i have other bits to get it to 100 or a tad more then all the way to 120.
keep me posted on the stock bore your messing with too. i think your cors is a better setup than my molossi but if i don't like it i will take it off and get a corsa build.. i am also going to run the R! pipe on bothj my scoots too, actually i want to get a small bore carb that i can use while running the oiler, by that i mean like a 18-21 mm.. carb. that ought to be a nice carb ivf i can find one that i also can get a intale and a reed block or setup so i can make a little more performance. i guessif we stay stock carb we have good mpg but i want performance too and i shojuld get 45 mpg or so i think but then i gues we never knw till we get there. will run the 8.44 gears also should be good for about 70 i have to think.
will be interesting to see how these things work out.
ihave two bikes tore down in my garage now parts everywhere and cleaning everything up too.. new brakes new tires new seals about everwhere. one brake cable too. pain to put in . cleanup whjeels and painting them and i am not good at this but will get it done. new fuel lines wehile i am at it as well as oil lines too you name it i am repalcing it may nest winter replace the body work on at least the 97 but themn may just repair it and paint it ior have it painted prolly cheaper to get new. and splitting the cases and new bearings and seals and may pull the wheels to install big end bearing, on them as well. lots of stuff to do but in a month i will be running plus i have a kymco Super 9 water cooled. i have a kit on it and have to put tires on it, and a gear. then my Harley CVO 07 Roadking which has a nice set of heads and a set of cams runs good too. 107 hp 121 ft lbs tq it rips. anyway i ahve a lot of learning on porting a 2t so i will at may age prolly let a pro do the porting as i don't want to ruin anything.
have you looked at milling the head a little on the stock setup if possible . anyway it will be fun

Hey happy, I am doing some rework on my 99 elite now. There might be a few things you can do to get a boost in preformance from what I have learned on my experience so far. Rejetting the carb, you will have to find some small drill bits but it should pay off. Porting teh cylinder, yes another good point. I wish I would have taken some close up pics of my Polini that I just got as its ported. A good dremel and a grinding bit will work here, from what I saw, most porting was done on the exhaust and a bit on the piston. I am gonna clean up my cylinder assy that I took off my scooter, hone it, rering it and port the cylinder and exhaust. It will still be 50cc but better than a stock never the less. The piston skirt had a port cut out in the skirt that went up about 1/4 inch and was slightly wider than the boost port on the cylinder. The exhaust was ported almost (about an 1/8 of an inch) to the same diameter to where the gasket flange was and just made larger all the way to the cylinder and then maybe made slightly wider than the stock opening. Thats from what I saw on the polini. I am gonna widen the exhaust port say a 1/8 all, around the cylinder wall and port it all the way to the exhaust and leave about an 1/8 all around the lip. You can place the gasket in the cylinder and mark all the metal that sticks outside the gasket. This is what needs to be removed and just remove smooth it all the way down to the cylinder wall. Then open the opening up a bit, not much on a stock bore and more on a 72cc. But don't work too much up or down, work more sideways as up and down affects timing.

[stillspeeding]

never port a malossi or polini bore unless you think you are better than they are, look at the flow chart that comes with the bore, these companes directly compete against each other and polini has larger piston ports!

[happyman]

never port a malossi or polini bore unless you think you are better than they are, look at the flow chart that comes with the bore, these companes directly compete against each other and polini has larger piston ports!

i wasn't going to attempt it.
VT said they could help it a little.

[itzmepete]

It isn't rocket scinentry, just porting out the inside of an exhaust port and smoothing it out basically to make it smooth and remove the ruff surface from the casting. Not open it up a ton, just a little and smooth it out. I am gonna redo my stock 50cc cylinder. It will be fine.

[MySpree]

once again, he thinks he is amazing dont he? now, pete, still speeding has been building bikes longer then me, truthfully as much as people dont want to admit it, he knows the most about dios here. he has worked at countless reputable shops and is the man when it comes to these. he is right, you try and port it, go ahead, and when its broken, i will laugh.

[happyman]

i have not much info on him. i know he answers my questions where no one eles does often times, and makes sense to me.. also like i said, i am not going to do any proting myself. VT said they can do it, and would do it . i do e-mail pete, and he also e-mails me, and points me in the right direction. i still have some unanswered questions but will get to them one day too.

once again, he thinks he is amazing dont he? now, pete, still speeding has been building bikes longer then me, truthfully as much as people dont want to admit it, he knows the most about dios here. he has worked at countless reputable shops and is the man when it comes to these. he is right, you try and port it, go ahead, and when its broken, i will laugh.

[MySpree]

im not saying pete is dumb, or doenst have an opinion. but it just upsets me when people start saying this is what you can do, when it should be, this is what is POSSIBLE to do, it may or may not work, but its a POSSIBILITY. making the exhaust port bigger in the elites cylinder wall is not something that needs doing, all that needs to happened is the flange out needs porting.

[happyman]

are we talking about the molossi or the stock ? so iregardless your saying i think the molossi nees the area around the exhaust flange touched up a tad.. was also told often times the corners of the pistons may have clearance issues also? i was asking questions like this on another forum and someone jumped in and made all kinds of acusations and assumptions about me.have not posted there anymore because there seem s to be another agenda there also. its very hard to get the info we need it seems.. so i just keep reading and paying attention to others.. hopefully i get the correct info and don't waste a nice build as i am doing two of them so its a prety cashy ordeal. so i may just not have the porting done and just do a int=stall and go for it. run the stock carb, and injector jet, and gear it to 8:44 and pay attention. i think i will go for a 95 jet to be sure and see how the plug looks after a short few minutes . anyway i am paying attention. i think these things can be a good time if put together correctly,, one thing too. i have asked this several times. what can a person expect for gas milage crusing at say 45 to 50 mph no high speed roll ons just cruesing?

im not saying pete is dumb, or doenst have an opinion. but it just upsets me when people start saying this is what you can do, when it should be, this is what is POSSIBLE to do, it may or may not work, but its a POSSIBILITY. making the exhaust port bigger in the elites cylinder wall is not something that needs doing, all that needs to happened is the flange out needs porting.

[MySpree]

yes, you see, you know were the rings split. there are an ofset of the exhaust, if you grind it down to big then the rings will get to the opening and break.

[happyman]

so there is no bridging on a molossi setup i take it?? my airsal on my S 9 kymco. has bridging to help prevent that?learn sometnhing everyday.

yes, you see, you know were the rings split. there are an ofset of the exhaust, if you grind it down to big then the rings will get to the opening and break.

[itzmepete]

Ok, no need to get insulting here. I do know where the ring splits, I do know about the section in the piston that keeps the rings from rotating. They are there to prevent the ring from rotating specifically into those ports and causing damage, the manual doesn't tell me this, my knowledge of being a real mechanic and years of training , schooling tells me this. They are there for that reason and they are not in a 4 stroke as a 4 stroke doesn't have cylinder ports. If the rings are not mated correctly on the piston, you will break the rings and damage the cylinder. I never said specifically to enlarge the exhaust port in the cylinder area but I am sure it can be slightly, it can be ported higher up as I have done this on my Rossi 11 cc engines. I did say it can be ported out , grinded out slightly larger INSIDE to smooth the airflow. I did say that a small section of the PISTON SKIRT can be cut out to match the BOOST port in a cylinder. My Polini had a small section cut out and my stock didn't. I have seen this on my Rossi engines, it allows the port to get a bit more fuel air charge. You also don't want to enlarge the exhaust where it won't flow smooth into the muffler either.

Now, I won't be insulting here but I will say this, you can learn everything there is about rebuilding a Elite 50cc in a month or less of school and some experience. When you change an engines output, torque and RPM you have to change the transmission to match it, common sense. Yeah, you can put 8:44 to1 gears on a stock elite, but will you be happy with the preformance? If you weight 75 lbs probably, if you weight 220 probably not. You could put any gear ratio you want, its the end result that you have to deal with. These are very simple bikes, you don't need schooling to make a living on these, a good manual, some on hands experience is all you need, no insult intended.

I tear down Jets, Turbines, Mowers, my scooter, electronic circuits, I can make a circuit, etch the board solder the units, read a schematic diagram know the sybols for a relay, pump etc. I never said I am a Honda expert. I am new to the Elites, I asked questions here and never get a straight answer or an Educated one that made sense. Change the Variator I have been told, and they are wrong, should be check the variator. People tend to give part answers and many are not based on experience but on what they have read, heard or read on a cracker jack box like the side panel of a preformance Variator. Now who would buy a NEW Variator if the side box said, "This new Variator will NOT increase your top end speed but return missing speed lost from a worn Variator" answer is No One, thats not good for sales. When one is AFRAID to do ones own work, you pay $$$ for someone else to do it for you. Many times this person doesn't have any real schooling, hence the computer repair field. They just had the balls to take it apart and learn to do it. Sometimes its above ones level, sometimes its not. Many are self taught. Some things I can not do, I am no doctor, some I can. My fridge compressor went out. I read on it on the internet whipped out my $150 multimeter, I diagonsed one of the two internal circuits, the start circuit and the run circuit, the start circuit was open and bad. was bad. This put a load on the run circuit and popped the overload relay. I jumped the relay and temp switch to check the comprssor running, in any event, I don't come here and state this or that without knowing. If I had the freon service cart, I'd replace my compressor myself as well.
What school did you train at? How many years training do you have? I tell this to ALL newbies, don't be afraid to pick up a manual on this bike, read up on it and be afriad to do anything to it, its a toy, ANYONE with a decent mechanical ability can do it. Its far from Hi Tech. There is no electronic fuel injection, oil is mechanical injection, no o2 sensors, MAP sensors TPS or any other basic sensors found on Fuel injection. I have yet to split the case, the hardest part of this engine, but I will say this, the day I do, I won't need a special tool to pull or replace the bearings. Some bushings bolts and nuts and I can do it myself. As for the Variator, if the diameter is the same FORGET IT, you have to be stupid to think it will make your bike go faster, it won't. Might have the internals a bit differently, might give a different mid range, might not. In the end, when the Vari is fully open, the belt WILL ride at the SAME height that it will on a stock Good Variator, Period, anyone that says differently is just pushing a product. If you don't know this, then obviously you don't have the mechanical ability to stop, think how it works, the theory and principal of how it works and apply some common sense. I am sorry, you started shooting at me, I am blunt and say it as it IS not how I want it to be. I want to set the record straight. The variator transmission is basically TWO adjustable pulleys that are constantly changing ratios back and forth depending on engine speed and the centrifugal effects it has on the Variator rollers which in turn overcome the rear centrifugal clutches center spring tension, DUH! You can't change the gear ratio of those two pulleys unless you change the diameter, its sooooo simple! You CAN change the way it reacts or preforms based on different rear ramps and weights. With a 7 gram rollers, at 8000 rpm's there might not be enough centrifugal energy to push that variator to its fully expanded position thus keeping it at a lower gear and faster accelleration. You can increase the roller weights OR trick your engine out and have it go say 10,000 rpms, now at that speed the centrifugal force is enough to push that variator fully open. No rocket scientry here.

Power? Big Bore, Yes, Muffler especially on a 2 stroke, A BIG yes, Carb , Yes, Gears no power but speed if your engine has the power/torque to push them Yes, Exhaust porting and timing Yes, if done right especially on a two stroke as its an air pump fed by fuel and air. I hope you have a timing wheel to slap on the crankshaft to know the degree's. Just smoothing out the exhaust and mating it to the exhaust port is a big improvement. A variator of the same outer dimensions, * No! A waste of money if yours is not buggered up. I don't giva a crap how different it is on the inside, the end result is if the diameter is the same, the belt won't run any higher, period. Whats so hard to understand? if your honda belt is not riding up at the top, try cleaning it out, new rollers and heavier ones.

I also have a 1990 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2.2 Turbo Intercooled with 80k Miles. I have torn it apart, turbo and all, and rebuilt it as factory stock. I fear nothing mechanical. I had a broken head stud that when the head was removed stuck out just less than a 1/2 in above the block. I did not panic, I grabbed my propane torch, a good pair of my best vise grips, a can of Aerokoil you don't know what that is, used only by professionals, and got it out, although was close!

I merely state my OPINIONS, help anyone here that asks it, and say it like it is if I did it and experienced it. Don't buy into all that Hi Preformance crap to sell you a part, some are worth it and some are not. Get a manual, these bikes are toys, nothing more, nothing less.

[MySpree]

here is my opinion, your a dumbass, your REALLY REALLY smart and thats your problem, you think your smarter? you think your the s***? i seriously smell a ban on the grounds of falsifying information.

[Dac]

here is my opinion, your a dumbass, your REALLY REALLY smart and thats your problem, you think your smarter? you think your the s***? i seriously smell a ban on the grounds of falsifying information.

lol