Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Bear45-70 wrote:

steffen707 wrote:I didn't say i was an expert bear. And i think i've explained myself pretty well.

Yeah, pretty much, the experts give you numbers like you asked and you told them all that they are wrong. Real good way to get more help.

You can't read very well can you? I said i listened to bakaracer, wheelman and yourself that 145 was too fat on the main jet. That shows I was taking the advice. I don't know why you were quoting vtcycles website in the first place, but as i said, if you just blindly take the first piece of info anybody tells you without confirming, investigating, and understanding the information, you will fail in life.

steffen707 wrote:

Bear45-70 wrote:

steffen707 wrote:I didn't say i was an expert bear. And i think i've explained myself pretty well.

Yeah, pretty much, the experts give you numbers like you asked and you told them all that they are wrong. Real good way to get more help.

You can't read very well can you? I said i listened to bakaracer, wheelman and yourself that 145 was too fat on the main jet. That shows I was taking the advice. I don't know why you were quoting vtcycles website in the first place, but as i said, if you just blindly take the first piece of info anybody tells you without confirming, investigating, and understanding the information, you will fail in life.

I didn't quote their website. I was quoting what I was told personally by them.

Alright, at any rate, I didn't mean to offend any of you. And I do appreciate the advice/guidance with any questions i've asked on the board.

I started a build thread and plan to document everything there. http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewto ... 16&t=24153

steffen707 wrote:

veedubh20 wrote:better start of bigger jet 52/145.

alimunum get heat expand dont go more than half throttle.

Perhaps i'm way wrong, but a 145 is way more than a 120. Do you really think during break in, you need that much more cooling effect?

well, YEs aluminum bore runs hot and quickly, than cast iron bores better to run little rich on the main, than fry the piston..

145 is bigger than 120. carry extra plugs, then you can work out down size main jets. 142,140,138,135,132.

the pg long need more fuel on wide open throttle. all you do is read the spark plug,

im tell my story, about my 88cc motor.

af16 was fully port intake, boost on the crankcase. 44.4mm crank and 50mm taiwan cast iron was ported.
i had ct chrome with 28mm oko pwk. 48 pilot and main jet 148. along with pg long pipe. 32:1 premix

steffen707 wrote:Alright, at any rate, I didn't mean to offend any of you.

Too late.

zuphilius wrote:

steffen707 wrote:Alright, at any rate, I didn't mean to offend any of you.

Too late.

you're breaking my heart.

So I heat cycled the engine, and i'm taking it out for its first ride around the block, at 1/4-1/2 throttle I think its "fourstroking", that means i'm too fat on the pilot jet right? Gotta go smaller?

steffen707 wrote:

zuphilius wrote:

steffen707 wrote:Alright, at any rate, I didn't mean to offend any of you.

Too late.

you're breaking my heart.

Well, I actually meant you've insulted just about everyone who came on here to help.

Me, I could care less.

From one Wisconsinite to another, good luck with your build, it's looking good.

steffen707 wrote:

zuphilius wrote:

steffen707 wrote:Alright, at any rate, I didn't mean to offend any of you.

Too late.

you're breaking my heart.

So I heat cycled the engine, and i'm taking it out for its first ride around the block, at 1/4-1/2 throttle I think its "fourstroking", that means i'm too fat on the pilot jet right? Gotta go smaller?

Actually that would be the slide needle, not the pilot.

Bear45-70 wrote:Actually that would be the slide needle, not the pilot.

Thanks Bear, i started messing with needles and found moving the clip up a notch to make it leaner has helped a ton, I still have some poping kinda sound when i let the throttle snap shut around 30mph at 1/2 throttle opening.

Awesome chart, I also found one posted by mouswheels,


And this quote from losthope in one of wheelman's threads,
"The three letters refer to different aspects of the needle. In turn you have:

1. Taper: most effective at ›- throttle.
2. Length/clip position: most effective at ¼-› throttle.
3. Diameter: most effective towards ┬╝ throttle.

Higher taper letters are richer; for diameter and length, higher letters are leaner.

For example, going off a standard JJH needle (our old N80F needle was close), and comparing with our other needles:

* GJH: leaner taper, so leaner at ›- throttle.
* LJH: richer taper, so richer at ›- throttle.
* JJK: leaner diameter, so leaner towards ┬╝ throttle.
* JJF: richer diameter, so richer towards ┬╝ throttle."

steffen707 wrote:Thanks Bear, i started messing with needles and found moving the clip up a notch to make it leaner has helped a ton, I still have some poping kinda sound when i let the throttle snap shut around 30mph at 1/2 throttle opening.
....................."

This is a closed throttle lean condition and would suggest that your pilot is too lean.

Bear45-70 wrote:

steffen707 wrote:Thanks Bear, i started messing with needles and found moving the clip up a notch to make it leaner has helped a ton, I still have some poping kinda sound when i let the throttle snap shut around 30mph at 1/2 throttle opening.
....................."

This is a closed throttle lean condition and would suggest that your pilot is too lean.

Thanks, i'll give that a look see tomorrow.

my 24mm oko came with a 6kb needle.

I read this""The three letters refer to different aspects of the needle. In turn you have:

1. Taper: most effective at ›- throttle.
2. Length/clip position: most effective at ¼-› throttle.
3. Diameter: most effective towards ┬╝ throttle.

Higher taper letters are richer; for diameter and length, higher letters are leaner.

For example, going off a standard JJH needle (our old N80F needle was close), and comparing with our other needles:

* GJH: leaner taper, so leaner at ›- throttle.
* LJH: richer taper, so richer at ›- throttle.
* JJK: leaner diameter, so leaner towards ┬╝ throttle.
* JJF: richer diameter, so richer towards ┬╝ throttle.""

But have no idea how the 6 in 6kb compares to say a JJH needle. I'm assuming the 6kb has a richer diameter because the B is lower than the H? Also since the k is higher than the J, it should have a leaner length? How does a number like 6 compare to a letter in the first place of the 3 consecutive numbers?

You need to learn how to do a proper plug chop. Tons of info on here just use the search. Also there is no secret jetting formula. Humidity, altitude, and air temp all play a role. You
Need to start rich and work your way down on the main. Needle setting is determined by temps and feel.

i can't do plug chops until the motor is broken in, because you can't do WOT, before then.

And so i'm stuck fiddling with the needles, air screw and pilot jet to get it to run right between idle and 1/2 throttle. I know what a plug chop is. I read a post on this forum saying you need to start with the needle diameter first, then air screw and pilot jet, then main jet, and then needle clip. Read over the next post.