PG long vs V8

[ottoman]

Have a basic build for my daily driver...
50mm BBK.. ported.. milled head
28mm OKO combo
ZX tranny
V8 pipe
Runs good and I am pretty happy with it... how will a PG Long pipe compare to the V8 on this setup?

[sum-azn-kid]

more topend power. the v8 is a lowend pipe. so you'll need lighter weights to run the pg long. You could also add an air box if you still want to be quite with the pg long
http://www.mopedsplus.net/index.php?dis ... t_id=29901

[tw39515]

i bought a airbox from them they are not checking web orders. waiting to hear back from them.

[ottoman]

more topend power. the v8 is a lowend pipe. so you'll need lighter weights to run the pg long. You could also add an air box if you still want to be quite with the pg long
http://www.mopedsplus.net/index.php?dis ... t_id=29901

Thanks for the answer... kinda what I thought.
Noise doesnt bother me... my other rides are pretty obnoxious (loud) but its good to know they make an airbox if I have to quiet it down... thanks!

[Dakine]

You cant really say to lighten the weights up. Might have to much rev. Pg long is a top end pipe so having medium to heavy weights is better. IN MY OPINION

[bakaracer]

You cant really say to lighten the weights up. Might have to much rev. Pg long is a top end pipe so having medium to heavy weights is better. IN MY OPINION

depends what gears you are using and clutch spring and center spring combo.

[ottoman]

Looks like a scored a used PG Long to play with
I fully expected to have to retune my tranny... right now with the V8 and the ZX trans I run a 1000 spring with 42 grams... Keli variator and a SEF plate.. oh I like stop light to stop light acceleration more than top end so right now it has 9.8 gears. I do have a set of 8.4 I will try out some day.

[bakaracer]

you will notice a little better midrange torque too.the transistion from mid to topend has better pull and your max rpm will be about 500rpm more. the v8 likesaround9100-9400 and the pg long 9800-10200 so get a tach and also get a cht gauge to watch the temps.

[ottoman]

actually I have a CHT gauge and I just welded in the bung for my pyrometer tonight.
I always liked a pyrometer better for carb tuning.... see how it works if it doesn't rain too much this weekend.

[eliteguy50]

Looks like a scored a used PG Long to play with
I fully expected to have to retune my tranny... right now with the V8 and the ZX trans I run a 1000 spring with 42 grams... Keli variator and a SEF plate.. oh I like stop light to stop light acceleration more than top end so right now it has 9.8 gears. I do have a set of 8.4 I will try out some day.

Then you should be running a smaller carb. Get some higher grab springs and it will launch better, especially with the PG long. Instead of the 8.4, you could try the 9.1 gears for stop light to stop light.

[ottoman]

So why do these Honda's rev so low?... your talking in the mid to high 9000 range.

When I was researching pipes for my Minerelli build, on all the top end pipes dyno charts, the top of the horsepower curve was always 14000+ rpm

I know when I got my 50 BBK from Taz I looked over the ports... just eyed them up didnt bother to degree it out.
And since it looked pretty tame and the kit was so cheap I fired up the dremmel.
I raised the exhaust 2 mm and widened it 2 mm and raise the transfers 1 mm.
It still is a baby.. idles nice, super responsive no peaky power band. Made me wish I would have been more radical

[Bear45-70]

So why do these Honda's rev so low?... your talking in the mid to high 9000 range.

When I was researching pipes for my Minerelli build, on all the top end pipes dyno charts, the top of the horsepower curve was always 14000+ rpm

I know when I got my 50 BBK from Taz I looked over the ports... just eyed them up didnt bother to degree it out.
And since it looked pretty tame and the kit was so cheap I fired up the dremmel.
I raised the exhaust 2 mm and widened it 2 mm and raise the transfers 1 mm.
It still is a baby.. idles nice, super responsive no peaky power band. Made me wish I would have been more radical

The horsepower curve and the max RPM depend on many things, the porting, the intake and reed size, the carb size and the exhaust tuning. You rev real high and your low end disappears until about 7,000 RPM. To make that work you need 6 and 7 speed transmissions and you just don't have that available here. Honda designs and builds these thing to be street machines, hence the lower RPM. Besides that 14K RPM wears a motor out in a hurry when it wasn't designed for it. Besides that a properly designed motor will make as much horsepower at 8K as a super radically modified motor will at 14K and live longer and be street able to boot. 2 Stroke have a max rev limit by how much air can be pumped thru them. Monster holes in the motor to accommodate high RPM kills street required bottom end.

[ottoman]

Well we will disagree again... if you can fill the cyl at 14000 it will make more HP than the same CC's at 9000... just how it is.

I was more wondering why there isnt much high end racing stuff for the Honda. Beside a few big 125CC water cooled kits and one or two pipes I cant find anything.

When I was building my Minerelli based drag scoot the options seemed endless.. I settled on a Malossi 77cc water cooled kit that was rated at 24hp but there were many other kits and manufactures that had kits pipes cranks etc.. its kinda crazy over in Europe with all the stuff offered.

There must be a reason the Honda isnt used for racing over there were drag and road racing these scooters is very popular.

Oh.. Bear they spin the road race scooter to 12000-14000 all the time with 70cc and they have no problem with power out of the corners

[Bear45-70]

Well we will disagree again... if you can fill the cyl at 14000 it will make more HP than the same CC's at 9000... just how it is.

I was more wondering why there isnt much high end racing stuff for the Honda. Beside a few big 125CC water cooled kits and one or two pipes I cant find anything.

When I was building my Minerelli based drag scoot the options seemed endless.. I settled on a Malossi 77cc water cooled kit that was rated at 24hp but there were many other kits and manufactures that had kits pipes cranks etc.. its kinda crazy over in Europe with all the stuff offered.

There must be a reason the Honda isnt used for racing over there were drag and road racing these scooters is very popular.

Oh.. Bear they spin the road race scooter to 12000-14000 all the time with 70cc and they have no problem with power out of the corners

Well, you are wrong because a lot of RPM is not required to make torque and horsepower and that is all that is required. Besides like I said, those high RPM engine have no usable low end torque or horsepower and require an 6 and 7 speed trannies to make then usable. That tranny is not available on these scooter. You are living in a fantasy world instead of listening to reality.

Yeah, they do spin the 70cc engines to 14K but they were designed from the ground up to do that and have the many speed tranny's to make those engines work that way. BUT.......these scooter engines were NEVER designed to do that and will fail from that kind of abuse. They don't have the bearings to deal with it and the cooling system can't deal with that much heat extra either. Just because you think it don't make it so.

[eliteguy50]

A big factor in the Minarelli vs Dio aftermarket options is the fact that the Minarelli has been used for so long and is still in use while the dio was not used as long and is not in high level production. Most of the high end race performance parts are no longer made for the dio.