Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

eliteguy50 wrote:

Bear45-70 wrote:

eliteguy50 wrote:If your engine has the torque to pull them, it will increase the top speed.

Torque does not make top speed. HORSEPOWER does. Torque is what acceleration is all about.

Torque is actual work. Horsepower is just a measurement.

Torque can be multiplied by your gearing. So torque is acceleration.

Horsepower can not be multiplied by gearing. Hence it is what determines your top speed as long as the gears are not too tall.

What do you attribute the top speed to? Past peak horse power, over rev.

eliteguy50 wrote:What do you attribute the top speed to? Past peak horse power, over rev.

To accelerate to a given speed takes more power than maintaining that speed. If you rev past peak power you are under geared.

Bear45-70 wrote:

eliteguy50 wrote:What do you attribute the top speed to? Past peak horse power, over rev.

To accelerate to a given speed takes more power than maintaining that speed. If you rev past peak power you are under geared.

Ah, so the wrong gearing, even if your engine has the needed output, will limit your speed. Similar to the gearing being too tall because of the wrong roller weights?

eliteguy50 wrote:

Bear45-70 wrote:

eliteguy50 wrote:What do you attribute the top speed to? Past peak horse power, over rev.

To accelerate to a given speed takes more power than maintaining that speed. If you rev past peak power you are under geared.

Ah, so the wrong gearing, even if your engine has the needed output, will limit your speed. Similar to the gearing being too tall because of the wrong roller weights?

If the gearing is too tall and the engine can not rev high enough to get on the shoulder of the power curve will never reach max horsepower RPM. This is true especially with a 2 stroke. All 2 stroke have a max RPM they can turn, even unloaded, limited by how much air the most restrictive area in the motor will flow. Usually the reeds or the porting. But Honda scooters have major limiting by the small carbs Honda used.

Bear45-70 wrote:If the gearing is too tall and the engine can not rev high enough to get on the shoulder of the power curve will never reach max horsepower RPM. This is true especially with a 2 stroke. All 2 stroke have a max RPM they can turn, even unloaded, limited by how much air the most restrictive area in the motor will flow. Usually the reeds or the porting. But Honda scooters have major limiting by the small carbs Honda used.

Didn't you just say that the intake was not really much restriction, that the restriction is actually mostly through the exhaust?

eliteguy50 wrote:

Bear45-70 wrote:If the gearing is too tall and the engine can not rev high enough to get on the shoulder of the power curve will never reach max horsepower RPM. This is true especially with a 2 stroke. All 2 stroke have a max RPM they can turn, even unloaded, limited by how much air the most restrictive area in the motor will flow. Usually the reeds or the porting. But Honda scooters have major limiting by the small carbs Honda used.

Didn't you just say that the intake was not really much restriction, that the restriction is actually mostly through the exhaust?

On the Spree, they restricted the * out of both sides of the cylinder to keep the thing near 30 mph. The reeds do a lot of that restricting. On the other 50 cc motors where 30 mph was not as important, the intake side is a part of the restriction. On my Aero 80 and 125 the intake side does almost all the restricting of top speed. This has been proven several times by people keeping the stock exhaust and swapping to bigger and better intake systems and seeing 10 to 15 mph top speed increases. These increases just prove that a 16 mm carb is too small for an 80 cc motor and an 18 mm carb is too small for a 125 cc engine.

Bear45-70 wrote:On the Spree, they restricted the * out of both sides of the cylinder to keep the thing near 30 mph. The reeds do a lot of that restricting. On the other 50 cc motors where 30 mph was not as important, the intake side is a part of the restriction. On my Aero 80 and 125 the intake side does almost all the restricting of top speed. This has been proven several times by people keeping the stock exhaust and swapping to bigger and better intake systems and seeing 10 to 15 mph top speed increases. These increases just prove that a 16 mm carb is too small for an 80 cc motor and an 18 mm carb is too small for a 125 cc engine.

Agree with you there.

on the US models they did that on almost all the bikes. the jdm bikes have a 16mm or 18mm carb on the stock 50cc motors. those pb keihin carbs that come off the jdm dio bikes. you can also change the pilot jet in those.

bakaracer wrote:Not true at all. the 50mm bores have high compression already,if not to much if using pump gas. thats why guys are seizing or blowing up

That's total nonsense. I've been running a 50mm Ruima jug for over a year, and it's as smooth as silk, and runs away from the 72cc jobs. There's lots of 50mm jugs on the road with no problems.

JJ Joseph wrote:

bakaracer wrote:Not true at all. the 50mm bores have high compression already,if not to much if using pump gas. thats why guys are seizing or blowing up

That's total nonsense. I've been running a 50mm Ruima jug for over a year, and it's as smooth as silk, and runs away from the 72cc jobs. There's lots of 50mm jugs on the road with no problems.

thats a load of crap once again from jj ...... P.S. MY 72 cc will smoke your pos 50mm you know nothing but lies old man .........

You guys are crazy. Come to hawaii and see how the big dawgs roll. 70+ mph bikes are common around here. You want real power and speed? Get ahold of steve at vt cycles and tell him what your looking to get ouut of your bike and he will set you up. Look up quickfix cycles and see what they got too. I would get a malossi castt iron, 26mm carb, 8.44:1 gears, polini naturals with a 1.5 center, oko or keli vari with sef ramp, play with 7-9 gram weights, get a aftermarket fan oil pump plug and you will need a throttle cable for the carb. Scorpion pipes are the * niz but yms v8 is okay. Don't run the cheap taiwan bores its like buying a kia or hyndai instead of toyota or honda

JJ Joseph wrote:

bakaracer wrote:Not true at all. the 50mm bores have high compression already,if not to much if using pump gas. thats why guys are seizing or blowing up

That's total nonsense. I've been running a 50mm Ruima jug for over a year, and it's as smooth as silk, and runs away from the 72cc jobs. There's lots of 50mm jugs on the road with no problems.

yeah that run way to rich that foul plugs alot just so it doesn't seize.running it like that makes it run like crap.

So at what RPM does the greatest power come from and where does the best RPM range for fuel economy come from

JJ Joseph wrote:That's total nonsense. I've been running a 50mm Ruima jug for over a year, and it's as smooth as silk, and runs away from the 72cc jobs. There's lots of 50mm jugs on the road with no problems.

Saying bakaracers reply is total nonsence made me lose any respect i had for your opinions.